Newbie - S61 mk3 - can preview sounds via keyboard dial but no sound from keys

oliverson
oliverson Member Posts: 20 Member

Complete novice here so please gently!

I've bought a new S61 mk3 and gone through the installation procedure. Some problems with the firmware update at first but eventually got there with it.

Trying to get to grips with the basics now. I've installed a few instruments (Massive, Noire and the Gentleman) and trying to play them from the keyboard but no sound can be heard. On the keyboard I then go into 'Browser' and using the big dial to the right of the screen, can successfully preview sounds.

I thought I might try a complete fresh install / factory reset of the keyboard as if to be starting afresh but it's not very obvious how to do this (to me anyhow).

Any help would be greatly appreciate. I've been at this for a few days now.


Thanks in advance

Best Answers

  • oliverson
    oliverson Member Posts: 20 Member
    edited December 2023 Answer ✓

    Hallelujah, SUCCESS !!!!!!!

    So, I climbed into the attic to retrieve the official USB cable from the keyboards box and feverishly plugged it in. Nothing!!

    Next I did some digging at the basic level of connectivity between the S61 and my Mac, taking any music software completely out of the mix (pun intended). In the Mac's Audio MIDI Setup app I could see the S61 and my Akai MPK Mini. That app allows you to test the inputs and outputs of those devices. I tested the input port of the Akai and was greeted with a flashing triangle and a blip from the device. On the S61, absolutely nothing. So I did some digging and here is what I found:

    [can't paste URL here as I'm a newbie]

    I followed the advice given and created a new midi configuration and lo and behold, I got my little flashing triangle from the S61 onscreen port.

    Going back to the S61 and my GarageBand track I could play the software synth with the keyboard!

    Acid test, what about Komplete Kontrol?

    YES, YES, YES!!!!

    But there are some issues that I still need to resolve:

    1. The sound level from the selected instrument is lower, and in the case of pianos like Noire or Gentleman much lower than the previewed sound (not that Gentleman has any previews)
    2. Sound is only coming from one of my KRK speakers when going through Komplete Kontrol, whereas there's no problem in GarageBand or any other app (YouTube, Spotify, etc).

    I won't pollute this thread with those issues though, I'll go back to searching the forums.

    BIG THANK YOU to everybody who has made suggestions on this and the other thread. Great community spirit.

  • oliverson
    oliverson Member Posts: 20 Member
    edited December 2023 Answer ✓

    Pretty annoying as a newbie to this forum I can't post a link that would genuinely help somebody out, so here's a screen grab. Creating a new configuration worked for me. Good luck.


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Answers

  • mykejb
    mykejb Moderator Posts: 876 mod

    If you're using Komplete Kontrol make sure that the keyboard is enabled for MIDI in the preferences menu. It's not automatic so you need to set it manually.

    -- Mike

  • oliverson
    oliverson Member Posts: 20 Member

    Thanks. I spotted that earlier and checked everything but to no avail.

    What I have done is created a midi track in Garageband and plugged in a different controller keyboard (Akai MPK Mini). That succeeded in playing the software instrument. Then I whipped out the controller and replaced it with the S61 and changed the midi settings for the S61. I could see it listed in the Controllers drop-down. But still no sound.

    I then downloaded the MIDI Monitor application and ran it. Key presses on the Akai were detected perfectly (note on, note off) but for the S61, were showing as invalid.

    So frustrated now I've raised a support ticket. I'd like to start the process over again as if the S61 had just been delivered and I had no existing NI software installed.

    Thanks for your input.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,489 Expert

    How are you connecting to the computer, USB or MIDI via an audio/MIDI interface? (If so which one)

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 1,668 mod

    Apparently user is on Mac but has as of yet not given any information about the OS used. User also made this thread !

    I will also call for @Jeremy_NI since this may require his assistance ! At Jeremy , quote user : Brand new S61 Mk3 and a fresh install on my Mac and I haven't even been able to play a single note from this so called 'controller' keyboard, either in NI software or even Garageband on my Mac. (other controller keyboard works fine with GB in my setup).

    @oliverson , kindly supply Jeremy and Kymeia information about what is the exact version of the OS on your Mac M2 ?

    Also on Mac it is most important that all N.I. apps have full disk access on your Mac. And for installations to work that you use the right file system ! Please see below list of common Mac advice/solutions/information links ! Also some Mac users have a problem with something called Private Relay so if that is on then you might want to turn that off also !


    Compatibility of Native Instruments Products on macOS :  https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/360014900358-Compatibility-of-Native-Instruments-Products-on-macOS

    How to Enable Full Disk Access on macOS : https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/4415601248657-How-to-Enable-Full-Disk-Access-on-macOS

    Notes on Hard Drive Formats on Mac Computers

    https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/214134545-Notes-on-Hard-Drive-Formats-on-Mac-Computers

    Native Access Legacy Installers for Older Operating Systems : https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000407909-Native-Access-Legacy-Installers-for-Older-Operating-Systems

    Legacy Installers for Native Instruments Software Products : https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/360000306817-Legacy-Installers-for-Native-Instruments-Software-Products

    My NI Controller Is Not Recognized by My NI Software (Mac) : https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/210264225-My-NI-Controller-Is-Not-Recognized-by-My-NI-Software-Mac-

  • oliverson
    oliverson Member Posts: 20 Member
    edited December 2023

    Connection is via USB, having tried via port into the MacBook M1 Pro running Sonama 14.2.1 OS, and also into Focusrite 8i6 audio interface via USB hub

    Have enabled full disk access to the apps and services referenced in the many posts and articles out ther.

    No idea what Private Relay is.

    I appreciate the many suggestions and links posted here but the reality is that this should JUST WORK for the majority of users and across the majority of standard setups! I didn't pay good money to be an alpha tester for NI, which reading the various threads, suggests what this is.

    By contrast, I purchased a little Akai MPK MiniPlus, lugged it in to the USB hub and played software instruments immediately and without friction in GarageBand, LogicPro, etc. It also played the installed NI instruments. Also have a Sequential OB-6 that I tested as a controller keyboard, yes I know, what a waste, but only a test. Worked fine. By contrast, this S61, it's a joke.

    At what point do we look at all the suggestions, tips, etc. with a view to getting this thing going and conclude it's just not ready for market? Which is a shame because it looks and feels the part, and previewing the sounds in the browser, well they sound amazing. But at the end of the day, none of that matters because the install is flawed for the majority of us. The insistence on flashing the firmware of the unit from day zero is a joke, especially when it is fraught with danger. My first attempt resulted in failure. I clicked retry and it eventually completed. This after changing to a different USB cable. You really couldn't make it up, it's the kind of knowledge only the freemasons would possess. The only reason that I conclude for flashing the firmware at the outset is because they know the product was rushed to market and would contain many bugs. Ship it then patch it.

    I'd like to roll back the keyboard to the firmware level it had when I unboxed it and start over. Despite what the firmware updater says, I have no confidence the firmware is correctly installed. Are there any diagnostic tools/tests to prove otherwise? I'd also like to remove all of the installed software from my Mac without having to poke around in the filesystem and manually remove files. That just should not be necessary. Why is there no proper clean removal tool? Why should users have to poke around with permissions? Why in Kontakt isn't the S61 selected as an input by default? Otherwise, what is the point of a midi controller keyboard that's sole purpose is to control midi instruments if it is switched off from the start???

    I'm a software engineer of some 20+ years commercial experience, going back non-commercially to the early 80's, and find this whole experience gobsmacking.

    Wondering what the return policy is now. Life is too short.

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 1,668 mod
    edited December 2023

    I "hear you" and understand your frustration. However as another user and not knowing much about Mac personally then I can not do anything better for you than inform you as best I can and otherwise call for Jeremy like I did in the above. I do know that Sonoma is not yet officially supported. But Jeremy_NI will most likely still have some good advice for you ! (Jeremy is a skilled Mac user himself and also customer liaison to N.I.) .

  • oliverson
    oliverson Member Posts: 20 Member

    You detected the frustration bit then? Lol.

    I am appreciative of you taking the time and effort to try help me resolve my issues, or more specifically the issues with my setup! Thank you.

    I think Sonoma is officially supported, judging from some threads I've come across, though whether that's the version I'm running I have no idea.

    Again, many thanks for you help in this and hopefully @Jeremy_NI can rescue me!

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,489 Expert

    Connection is via USB, having tried via port into the MacBook M1 Pro running Sonama 14.2.1 OS, and also into Focusrite 8i6 audio interface via USB hub

    First one is correct, it needs to be a direct connection or via a USB hub connected to your Mac but not indirectly via the Focusrite

    Can you please post a screenshot of your MIDI settings in whichever DAW you are using to see if you have the right I/Os setup?

  • oliverson
    oliverson Member Posts: 20 Member
    edited December 2023

    The USB hub is connected directly to my Mac and the Focusrite plugs into that, but as I've said, I have also removed both the USB hub and the Focusrite from the mix, again with no success.

    I'd like to omit any DAW from the mix as it's just another cog that could go wrong. It should be possible to get this working with just the S61, the Mac (USB direct or via USB hub) and Komplete Kontrol, then introduce the DAW at a later point when it's proven that the keyboard and the Mac/NI software are configured correctly?

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,489 Expert
    edited December 2023

    Of course, makes sense, I always appreciate a process of elimination - so can you post a screenshot of your MIDI settings in Komplete Kontrol?

  • oliverson
    oliverson Member Posts: 20 Member
    edited December 2023

    Here you can see from the first photo, the midi settings, proving the S61 is 'detected' over midi.

    The second photo is from the free app 'MIDI Monitor' that shows the midi input from the S61 and then the MPK Mini Plus. Note the 'Invalid' messages regarding the S61 compared to the Note On/Off on the MPK. They were, one after the other, plugged into the same port on the USB hub connected to my MacBook Pro M1 Pro, proving at least that my kit is wired up correctly, at least from the Akai's perspective.

    I know nothing about midi but it seems to me the S61 isn't sending valid midi data to the Mac, at least from the keybed. This is why I think it is screwed with the firmware update.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,489 Expert

    Yes unfortunately you may be right, as far as I can tell this all looks setup correctly. This is where it might be good for someone from NI support to step in, I think we have eliminated setup issues and maybe there is a hardware fault or at least the firmware needs resetting/updating?

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,489 Expert

    Just a thought, have you tried unplugging the Scarlett interface, just in case there is a clash?

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 1,668 mod
    edited December 2023

    Quote : "This is why I think it is screwed with the firmware update.".

    I am sure that if necessary then Jeremy_NI will ask Matthew_NI, or someone else from product team, to at least evaluate situation. Despite what some people might think then N.I. cares a lot about getting any problems with the S - Series MK3 keyboards taken care of !

    But if there is any information available about the behavior of e.g. the display of the keyboard when turned on then I am sure that it would be of interest to know for N.I. to understand the problem !

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