Kontrol S61 MK3 working on my Windows 11 PC but not on Windows 10 PC

DonSey

Just got the MK3 keyboard Friday Dec 12 ..with not being able to get the Mk3 to be recognized on my Music Production Wins 10 Pc threw supplied USB-C Cable . Keyboard would power up but the firmware updater could not see it and the Keyboard MK3 was not listed in Printer & Devices or Device Manager .. Nothing wrong with USB-C plug on the Wins 10 pc ...Any else I plugged into it did and does work as it should ... spent most of my Saturday and into Sunday Morning with trying anything and everything with no prevail ... Sucks !!! .. I have a new Wins 11 Pc that I am building for Music Production ... I tried the MK3 Keyboard on it ... had no problems .. Firmware updater and the Wins 11 pc recognized it right away all is good there !! The problem is why is the MK3 not work with the Wins 10 pc ...I'm not ready to switch to the new Wins 11 pc. I have the MK2 Keyboard and it works great on the Wins 10 pc ...I'm thinking ...I'm taking the MK3 back but not sure yet

DonSey

PROBLEM SOLVED 😀 !!!! .....All Working ..... Yeah 😃 .... So here is what I did today ...Took advice from PoorFellow ... He had it right !! ( Cable Problem ) on Music Production Win 10 Pc Only (Yes the only one ) .... So I went out bought the best cables ( 8K Thunderbolt 4 Passive Cable 6 Foot $39.99 Can ., & 67w Gan " PD USB-C Mine Charger $40.49 Can. I tried the original USB-C cable supplied with the MK3 one more time on the M.P. Win 10 Pc and it was still not recognized . But 1st I'm going to try on one other Win 10 Pc that I have first ( That is # 2 ). Same cable supplied with the MK3 ..... It Worked !!! This Pc seen it right away and so did the firmware updater program , & Device Manager ... So now what is wrong with the M.P Win 10 pc (# 1) . So I go back to the M.P Win 10 Pc but use the ( 8K Thunderbolt 4 Passive Cable 6 Foot ) instead nothing else .... Turn the MK3 keyboard on and watch what happens in Device Manager .... It all came alive !!!!!! The Mk3 keyboard shows up Device Manager , Printers and Devices , and the MK3 Firmware updater now sees it also (Shows that the firmware was updated by the Win 11 Pc ... All Good .....Happy .....By the way I did what I said before in earlier posts ...different cables ( from my Samsung phone , Charger, updated drivers ,different ports USB-C to USB 3.1 ) I tried almost any thing , read posts any where and any where.... and so on ) A BIG THANKS goes out to PoorFellow for repeatedly trying to get me to try a different cable ( Better Cable ) . All the Pc's were made to be the Music Production Work Horse ... The Win 11 Pc was made more for Video Production but things changed . It' now going as my primary M.P. Work Horse.. All the PC's are Desktops . The Problem Pc is the oldest of the 3 ... but still did it's job well ...

PoorFellow

There can be more reasons for your experience. Why it does not work with the Windows 10 machine ? Could be a cable problem (yes ! even with supplied by NI) and an USB-C port problem and a Windows USB-C driver problem, You say that the port is OK , but that has no meaning in this context since N.I. reports that some other makes do not keep standards on chips set and/or on chips set drivers, please read the following post by Matthew_NI, Product Team, 4:58 PM , 2023-11-29 !

My suggestion is that should you try using an USB-C to USB-A 3.0 adapter and then try using an USB-A 3.0 port on the computer instead ! It's not a guaranteed fix but worth a try ! Just make sure that you are using quality cable and adapter (though a user recently reported that the allegedly cheap (?) USB-C cable that came with users phone worked for the user) Otherwise another suggestion is to use a self-powered USB-C hub between computer USB-C port and keyboard USB-C port , and again be sure to use quality cables that are capable of transmitting both data and power.

To understand the complexity of USB-C you can read the DataPro's USB-C Guide and FAQ !

DonSey

Tried all that !! I'll even try again . I seen the article about trying different cables you mention above , also read anything and everything online about why the MK3 is not recognized !! Topics on updating all the drivers on all the ports in Device Manager ( Did that also ). Why is the MK3 seen so easily on one and not the other ? ....The USB-C port on the Wins 10 Pc is ( ASMedia® USB 3.1 controller :1 x USB 3.1 Gen 2 port(s) (1 at back panel, USB Type-CTM, Support 3A power output) .. I had no problem with the Win 11 Pc ...One thing I'm going to check is my graphics card on the Wins 10 pc if it supports (Direct 3D 11.1 (feature level 11.0) or higher) something I missed ..Still looking for the right reason it doesn't work on the Wins 10 Pc ...I'll keep everyone informed on how I make out. In the mean time keep giving me suggestions .

PoorFellow

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/115017#Comment_115017

Then try attaching an USB-C PSU to the Keyboard power port and then try attaching the keyboard to an USB 2.0 port on the MB via the USB-C to A port adapter just to see if that works ! From what N.I. have written then updating the USB-C drivers may not work unless it is the 'native' Microsoft ones as N.I. reports to be working with Microsoft to update the drivers !

Anyway , if none of what is suggested works then I think that you are wasting your time with forum discussions and you ought to have support take a look . Hardware support is here .

DonSey

Read that also about N.I. working with Microsoft to update the drivers ! .Took a look at my Video card on the Win 10 Pc ...It's running Direct 3D 12.1 ...so that part is good now...

Matthew_NI

Customer Support may be able to help figure out what's going on with your Windows 10 machine.

If the MK3 is working fine with your Windows 11 machine, it would suggest the issue is something about your Windows 10 machine.

PoorFellow

P.S.

Also , one of the first 'sins' in connection with troubleshooting is assumptions ! And the statement "the MK3 not work with the Wins 10 pc" is not very specific either !

So I personally ought not assume that you e.g. "Verified the Hardware Status" , so if not make sure that you have !

Also , when trouble shooting then it's a wrong assumption to make that just because that on computer can correctly power a keyboard that then another can also , even if another device functions properly with the same port. If the keyboards works fine on another PC and you have tried more ports and port types on the other computer then the likelihood that it can be a power issue will be rapidly dwindling into almost nothing. But never the less, when all else (also?) fails then I think that if you have one and unless that you have not done so already then just to be thorough you ought to check also while having a proper power supply (USB-C PD) attached to the keyboard and still check with more cable and ports !

P.S. 2

I do not understand what "Video card is running Direct 3D 12.1" has to do with if Microsoft has updated the Win10 machine USB-C drivers for the N.I. keyboard or not ?

DonSey

System Requirements

• MIDI 2.0 compatible

• Intel Core i5, Apple M1 (and equivalent or higher)

• macOS 13 (Ventura) or higher (compatible iwth macOS 12 in MIDI 1.0 mode)

• Windows 10 (latest service pack) or higher

• 8 GB RAM

• An internet connection and a graphics card that supports Direct 3D 11.1 (feature level 11.0) or higher are required to download and activate this product. Once installed an deactivated, the product can be used offline.

PoorFellow

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/115165#Comment_115165

Ah ! , yes ! , I think I see where you are going ! You mean that as a buyer you have not properly been notified of USB-C requirements in the System Requirements section prior to purchase. And in fact then your computer ought not even require a USB port to use the keyboard (USB-C or otherwise) since N.I. do not say so in the System Requirements. Where N.I. only indirectly tells so by stating input and output ports ! (maybe the point of the given system requirements is that you maybe can use the keyboard as a midi controller with no USB-C port ?)

Well , sorry , all that you have to discuss with N.I. support or N.I. corporate.

I would still have to maintain the standpoint that I do not see what "Video card is running Direct 3D 12.1" has to do with if Microsoft has updated the Win10 machine USB-C drivers for the N.I. keyboard or not ? Unsuccessfully or not then as someone trying to assist/advice you to get the keyboard to function on the Win 10 machine then I don't think that it's furthering that to start discussing if N.I. sufficiently advertised System Requirements or not. Not even while I completely agree with you that the USB-C System Requirements ought to have been stated as part of the System Requirements !

Thank you for you (hopefully) understanding my personal position in this matter in connection with the question/matter at hand raised by you !

P.S.

Also in case you didn't notice then Matthew_NI who joined the discussion above is not just anybody in connection with all of the above discussion. Matthew_NI is listed as being Associate Director of Product Management, Kontrol and Maschine @ NI (previously advertised as Product Manager @ NI) , so you can be sure that any issue here has got the attention of even the "Product Management team" and I hope that you will at least appreciate that even if you have not been able to get a quick fix to your liking !

Jeremy_NI

@DonSey Issues with the driver should be fixed by now, make sure you've installed the latest updates for your Windows 10 machine. Just to be sure, did you install the NI Hardware Connection Service? Did you install Komplete Kontrol? Are both running as admin? How to Run a Program as an Administrator

Did you try these steps? My Komplete Kontrol Keyboard Does Not Start

If that does not help, I wonder if it could be a power issue? Sorry if I missed that information but did you try to power the MK3 with a power supply on top of plugging it to the computer? Did you try several USB C ports on the computer?

DonSey

PROBLEM SOLVED 😀 !!!! .....All Working ..... Yeah 😃 .... So here is what I did today ...Took advice from PoorFellow ... He had it right !! ( Cable Problem ) on Music Production Win 10 Pc Only (Yes the only one ) .... So I went out bought the best cables ( 8K Thunderbolt 4 Passive Cable 6 Foot $39.99 Can ., & 67w Gan " PD USB-C Mine Charger $40.49 Can. I tried the original USB-C cable supplied with the MK3 one more time on the M.P. Win 10 Pc and it was still not recognized . But 1st I'm going to try on one other Win 10 Pc that I have first ( That is # 2 ). Same cable supplied with the MK3 ..... It Worked !!! This Pc seen it right away and so did the firmware updater program , & Device Manager ... So now what is wrong with the M.P Win 10 pc (# 1) . So I go back to the M.P Win 10 Pc but use the ( 8K Thunderbolt 4 Passive Cable 6 Foot ) instead nothing else .... Turn the MK3 keyboard on and watch what happens in Device Manager .... It all came alive !!!!!! The Mk3 keyboard shows up Device Manager , Printers and Devices , and the MK3 Firmware updater now sees it also (Shows that the firmware was updated by the Win 11 Pc ... All Good .....Happy .....By the way I did what I said before in earlier posts ...different cables ( from my Samsung phone , Charger, updated drivers ,different ports USB-C to USB 3.1 ) I tried almost any thing , read posts any where and any where.... and so on ) A BIG THANKS goes out to PoorFellow for repeatedly trying to get me to try a different cable ( Better Cable ) . All the Pc's were made to be the Music Production Work Horse ... The Win 11 Pc was made more for Video Production but things changed . It' now going as my primary M.P. Work Horse.. All the PC's are Desktops . The Problem Pc is the oldest of the 3 ... but still did it's job well ...

DonSey

I hope all this helps others.. with the similar problem . That is why the discussion was posted here in the Community Forum ...Thanks Again ...

PoorFellow

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/115451#Comment_115451

@DonSey , First of all thank you very much for returning and sharing solution. And also thank you very much for giving me (much needed) recognition/credit ! And congratulations on the cable investment and on getting your Keyboard to function with the Windows 10 computer also !

With respect to the cable ! : Then yes ! if you read the DataPro's USB-C Guide and FAQ and then starts to poke around on the site and the reads their articles on the USB4 and Thunderbolt 4 then you get exactly that impression that the passive Thunderbolt 4 cable (maybe even v.3 also) is superior to that of USB4 and one also finds out that USB4 is USB-C in both ends. So I seriously did consider advising you to go with a passive Thunderbolt 4 cable. But both is that rather expensive but also I am with respect to all of this at a great disadvantage/in a poor situation in as much as I do not own a computer with an USB-C port to test anything and no S-Series MK3 keyboard to test with anyway. I do have USB 3 on computer and USB-C units such as phones. But alas none of this helps. Further more then another recent hand-me-down were a "LogiLink UA0107" (External HDD enclosure 3.5 , SATA, USB 3.0) and the designer of that in my mind most have gone crazy the day that he designed that because it is designed with an USB-A 3 plug in the unit (where one normally always uses a B plug) so that makes the unit originally come with something as exotic as an USB-A 3.0 to USB-A 3.0 cable which I initially did not have. Me not being an idiot tried to find information about it and I finally discovered that the cable were not entirely backwards compatible (and that some pins are not connected) , over at DataPro , as you have now discovered that I am by now quite fond of , the cable is listed as "USB 3.0 Super-Speed A/A Debugging Cable" , anyway read about it yourself and weep that anyone will design an enclosure as LogiLink did with the above ! Anyway the 'some pins are not connected' part made me realize that there had to be a reason for that. But it also made me aware what possible damage could have been done had I started using a normal cable with some adapters. Hence ! : when I am not entirely sure with respect to cables then I prefer to wait uttering myself until such time that I am more confident about the proper use !

By the way , anyone reading a lot in this forum might have spotted me yesterday mentioning 'Startech' which were not by coincidence either. I am not knowledgeable enough on tech matters and do not have the wast product experience and the money it takes to get that that I am able to endorse Startech but to me they appear as a rather reliable brand for what appear to be an economy brand (compared) and lo-and-behold , it also over at Startech that they will feed you an interesting little article about USB 3.1 (which can use USB-C plug) and when one reads that then one might start pondering on the whole USB-C thing again !

@Matthew_NI , please disregard most of my rant about the Logilink enclosure and instead concentrate on the user (DonSey) cable issue above ! . I am just calling on you to have you consider if maybe N.I. could have saved itself from at least some troubles by distributing the units with a cable with better specifications !?