Kontrol S61 MK3 firmware issue

Wacker
Wacker Member Posts: 1 Newcomer

Hi All

Tried to update firmware for Kontrol S61 and it did not work, .

see below screen shots.

now the keyboard wont even start.

what am I to do ?

thanks

Jason

Best Answer

  • Jeremy_NI
    Jeremy_NI Customer Care Posts: 8,830 mod
    Answer ✓

    @Wacker So, it seems the unit was defective in your case and you should receive a new one soon.

Answers

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 1,609 mod
    edited November 2023

    Your keyboard may be 'bricked' already check following page first ! , ref. : Kontrol S-Series MK3: Troubleshooting Firmware Update Issueshttps://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/14229160390045-Kontrol-S-Series-MK3-Troubleshooting-Firmware-Update-Issues

    As for the power cycling then : Power cycle the keyboard 5 times. At the 5th time, the recovery screen should appear and you can re-update the controller. In order to power cycle, turn on the device, wait 2-3 seconds and then turn it off again. Please repeat this 5 times.

    If that doesn't change things then your keyboard may be 'bricked' because of a failed update of the firmware and you will have to contact place of purchase or N.I. support to ask to have your keyboard swapped for a new one ! Don't worry , N.I. will help you and your investment is safe ! Despite how ever annoying the whole thing is then there is that at least !

    Generally then it appears that not only does the keyboards with the shipped firmware and initial FW update software had several problems with USB C drivers and chips sets (why the use of a self powered USB-C hub is suggested) but also it appears as if the keyboard needs a USB-C power supply capable of USB-C PD attached to the keyboard power port when updating firmware !

  • Vic Angelo
    Vic Angelo Member Posts: 103 Advisor

    Consistently feels like they rushed the MK3 Keyboard out. I feel bad for the devs because, after working for tech companies myself, I know that the decision to rush product out always is comes from the top.

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 1,609 mod

    Agree , but I am just another user here and I don't work here despite it often feels that way , I mean me spending far too much of my time trying to help people here while not being on N.I. payroll 😁..

  • Matthew_NI
    Matthew_NI Product Team Posts: 684 mod

    I would like to clarify some well intentioned but slightly incorrect statements in this thread.

    There are known issues affecting USB-C peripherals, specific to certain computers.

    The issue most commonly manifests as an intermittent connection, at random and with no reliable repro.

    It may happen a user 100 times in a row, and then 1 every 1000 times, it is entirely random.

    If it occurs, the symptoms would of course vary depending on the peripheral.

    For instance, a USB-C display, when used with one such specific computer, might blink or flash, update sluggishly, or freeze. A USB-C hard drive might disconnect randomly, or fail to sync or load.

    For a hardware device that relies on USB-C for everything, such as our keyboard, you might experience it disconnecting from the the plug-in, or the firmware updater, which could cause firmware updates to fail, or data to stop transferring, resulting in the plug-in integration freezing or not working correctly.

    It is incredibly frustrating. To users who blame the peripherals, and to manufacturers of USB-C peripherals bound by confidentiality and with no ability to take further action other than recommend workarounds. The manufacturers of certain computers are aware, and in more recent models, have revised the issue. That leaves quite a number of potentially affected computers in-market. Please note that I am not referring to any one specific model or company, and nor am I at liberty to clarify further. The workarounds have been advised across the board.

    In those instances, one such workaround that has proved to be consistently reliable is to use a USB-C hub, which bypasses some problematic communication protocols and resolves the issue. As such, it is often our first recommendation when a user reports a failed firmware update, or a failure to consistently connect to the user experience we've built.

    This then comes with another consideration. Whilst USB-C is perfectly capable of sending data and power down a single cable, some USB-C hubs are not. The user must make sure the outlet on the hub supports both data and power (they are usually labelled).

    If you use an S88, which has higher power draw, you also need a USB-C power supply in addition to the data connection.

    If you use an S49 or S61, and are plugging your USB-C cable or USB-C hub into a USB-A input on the computer, USB-A cannot provide adequate power and therefore must also use an additional USB-C power supply.

    I hope that helps explain what might possibly be happening, or has happened, to you, but also why the problems "with USB C drivers and chips sets" @PoorFellow mentioned are not the fault of ours, nor within our power to resolve.

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 1,609 mod

    Thank you very much for the incredibly detailed explanation. And I apologize if stepping on your toes and if not being good enough of conveying the things expressed by you above which I believe are 100% correct.

    My short form for me really just encapsulates that seen from a user point of view then the keyboards have been shipped with firmware and initial FW update software that had several problems with USB C drivers and chips sets and where it for N.I. of course matters a great deal to clarify where the blame lies then for the user the firmware still shipped with problems even if not N.I.'s fault that other companies make products that does not live up to specifications. But , I am very sorry , you are right I ought to at least tried to explain a little. Part of the problem doing that is that I don't know even half of what you do and also do I not have your eloquence of expressing myself with respect to technical matters and especially not in English ! .

    But while I think you very likeable and same goes for the way that you generally handle things , including here (thank you so much), then I still think that N.I. could have saved themselves at least some troubles if N.I. had shipped the keyboards with an USB-C power supply (at least with respect to the S88).. Also , and I write this being kind , I think that other people will point out that maybe N.I. ought to have performed more tests in the wild, after all incompatibility and lack of keeping specifications is not exactly a new phenomenon , especially not on PC platform !

    Anyway , I may be clumsy in expressing myself sometimes , and I may even forget to properly convey the essence of what you wrote above in my communication with other people but I for one absolutely believe you to be the skilled professional that you are and am equally willing to believe that N.I. have manufactured to specifications here where others have failed to manufacture to specifications.

    So , my most sincere apology if stepping on your toes and for not being accurate in the sense of being more clear about some things in my posts above !

    Thank you for your time

    Best regards

  • Matthew_NI
    Matthew_NI Product Team Posts: 684 mod

    @PoorFellow absolutely no apology needed whatsoever. You continue to be a wonderful contributor here, and I have really appreciated the way you've been able to deliver constructive and critical feedback, as well as help your fellow users out.

    In this case - without the information I just provided, you also had no way to know. Again, no need to apologize for trying to help.

  • Jeremy_NI
    Jeremy_NI Customer Care Posts: 8,830 mod
    Answer ✓

    @Wacker So, it seems the unit was defective in your case and you should receive a new one soon.

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