Issues with older computer

My main computer, now over 10 years old, ( already I hear the gasps from the Windows users), is an early retina MBP. I have recently got the notification in Native Access that due to the operating software (Catalina 10.15.7) no longer being supported by Apple, I may have issues with Native access updating. My computer will not run the next version of the operating software (Big Sur).

Does this affect the functioning of the various elements of my Komplete 10 Ultimate ce installation?

The age of the computer is the main reason for not updating to 14.

My issue is further complicated by the fact that I use a Firewire multichannel digital mixer and upgrading my computer makes the mixer unusable due to lack of Firewire support.

For Firewire I am limited to Windows10 and/or Big Sur on Apple. This of course, raises the issue of how long are either of them going to remain supported.

I have a Windows 10 gaming machine to which I could add a firewire card, a large ssd and maybe a bit more ram, and use that as my studio machine.

Are there then issues with having my software (NI Komplete Ultimate 10 ce) on more than one machine?

I have a 2tb ssd in my MacBook. Would it be possible to shift that to the Windows 10 machine? And if so would I need to wipe it and re- download/install?

For the moment things seem to be OK although, after returning from 6 months travel, I found problems at first with my s88 connecting to Komplete Kontrol. Also some issues with midi selection in Komplete drum instruments while setting up V-Drums.

There could well be further issues I have not stumbled on yet.

Just not sure whether this is a Native Access issue or not.

These days I am transitioning more to "stand alone" using MPC Live2 and awaiting delivery of an Akai Force.

More interested in extending the life of what Computer based gear, both hardware and software, I have invested in to date, than in sinking more money into new computers digital mixers etc.

Maxed out M3 MacBook now about $10,000 Aust. Sheesh!

Sorry if this is not the right spot for this post, but it did start from Native Access warning.

One other (maybe) possibility. I have a basically unused Windows Partition on my ssd (250gig) (Bootcamp). Is it possible to install Native access there and direct it to the Apple section of the ssd?

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PoorFellow

If you have old computers and old software then you most likely ought to avoid both updating Native Access and Komplete Kontrol and also avoid updating any recently updated sound banks if you have access to that ! .

Also do not expect to be able to share drives between Windows and MAC computers. One of the issues with MAC is often that drives needs to be MAC file system formatted. You can get a e.g. "APFS for Windows by Paragon" but still it does not appear as a good idea to me...

Also if you have an old MK1 keyboard that is declared EOL by N.I. so they will not support it anymore (another reason to keep your Native Access below version 3.xx)

No Native Access must be installed to your computer not to an external drive !

I am not aware of any issues with having NI Komplete Ultimate 10 ce on more than one machine , but then there are a lot that I do not know !

6xes

interesting!!

my philosphy, is use what you have until you run the wheels off them!! once the wheels have come off, your hand is forced..

you are fortunate in having a Windows 10 PC in which everything will move over, provided you can navigate the Native access paths and set them correctly...

like you i also have a firewire 4 stereo ch-out audio interface connected to my PC utilising a PCI card(PCI-E Firewire 800 1394B Card TI Chipset(becareful which PCI card you purchase they are not all the same!)

before installing the Native instrument stuff on your PC... i would first make a clone of the PC system drive you have... that way if you BALLS UP your native instruments installation you can re-do it without having to re-install your currently working system-drive(especially if you have alot of software or games installed...

its a right PITA to re-install everything back to how you had it all running smoothly...(been there done that!)

Personally when i carried out the transition of moving my native instrument stuff over from PC to m1 mac mini... i used a software called paragon NTFS and installed it on my m1 mac mini..

This basically allowed me to use my NTFS formatted - SSD with the komplete collection ultimate 12 to be used on the m1 mac... i only needed to set the native instrument paths correctly for them to be recognised on the m1 mac mini...

the best part about this... is i can just move SSD back on my PC and the paths are still recognised... i could make a clone if i wanted to... for backup purposes too if need be *winks...

i think you should be okay with your transition... provided you take the precaution of cloning your system drive... goodluck!

6xes

just as a side note:

if your SSD with the ULTIMATE CE is formatted in APFS then trying to port it over to the PC is not going to work... if you were clever and formatted it in FAT32 then you "may" be able to port it across... i dont personally format drives in Fat32 as they are prone to errors & files becoming corrupted

NTFS is a better formatting solution... especially when porting from PC to mac.. with the Paragon NTFS software... there is also a slight performance read/write speed loss which is minimal in my eyes

Stephen Bish

Thanks for your comments guys. If at all possible, I would like to just keep things as they were, with everything working. Totally avoid Windows, which I hate with a passion but tolerate in order to play some driving sims.

Given my shift towards stand alone, upgrading my MacBook has not been an issue until this Native Access warning. Further complicated by the Firewire issue. Fact is I don't want to update or upgrade anything in my music gear. I just want to be left alone to enjoy what I have invested in quite heavily (at least for an age pensioner) over the last 10 years or so.

I am hoping that if I do nothing, including avoiding any updates, that everything will function as it has and continue to do so. Is this a realistic hope?

If it did come to switching to the Windows 10 desktop, including swapping out the hard drives, it would be a one way thing, the old MacBook essentially being written off. I mean I have the original 256gig ssd. I would envisage installing the 2tb one as a "D" drive and reformatting, installing Komplete and any other music software (which would also have to be downloaded in Windows format)

The main strong point of the current MacBook IS the ssd. It's so good to have everything in one place after years of putting up with external hard drives. The ONLY downside is it's age. I did think about dropping a couple of thousand $ on a maxed out 2019 I9 MBP but thought nah and bought the Akai Force instead. I've enjoyed MPC Live2 for the last couple of years and came from Ableton Live(3) - Suite 9 and Push so the Force workflow should be pretty easy and natural for me.

I really like having all those instruments and Maschine expansions available if I want them. For the most part though I don't.

btw: I have Native Access 3.3.1

Is that my problem and if so can I remove it and reinstall an earlier version? If so which One?

Also I encountered NTFS when transitioning to Mac from Windows over 10 years ago. If I go the Windows route would it not be possible to leave the hard drive (the windows one) as is and just direct files to a D drive?

I spent most of my life in the pre-computer age so forgive some pretty basic questions.

6xes

Just as a general thought... having read through your post!

& thinking forward given your affection for what you have collected over time

portability of software&hardware plays a key-role in being able to maintain the thinking...

"my gear is still usable"

being able to utilise across both platforms Windows & Mac allows us to maintain that thinking!

"I am hoping that if I do nothing, including avoiding any updates, that everything will function as it has and continue to do so. Is this a realistic hope?"

so utilising both a WindowsOS & Mac is going to serve you long term for the mindset "

i personally have been unfortunate of having purchased 2nd hand NI hardware which has become somewhat obsolete within 2 years on one platform (MacOS) but still relevant and usable on WindowsOS

however the transferring of files(Documents/Wav/soundfonts/configs/settings) will become a hindrance and become the little annoying thing which will slowly get at you.. if formats across platforms are different

at this point look at establishing a format that will work cross-platform... and when the wheels fall off, you can just put a new engine & new wheels on & be moving again!

6xes

one thing i have learnt with the new m1 mac mini... is unless the software is very well designed to manage memory you will be okay... if however the software is reliant on alot of memory usage to operate then utilising a WindowsPC is the sensible option...

this is the case with Kontakt albeit software that utilise HQ sample based instruments.

M1's are better suited to CPU audio intensive stuff as the MacOS core-audio doesnt have to use a driver to be a middleman & translate things... this driver aspect in windowsOS often becomes the bottle neck, which i have come to find out.

So again utilising MacOS & WindowsOS in unison can be beneficial.

I invested in a audio interface which would allow me to utilise the pass through of Audio from multiple platforms, whether ipad-IOS Android Macos or windows, this is something i saw as useful in the long term scheme of things with regards to not letting anything become obsolete but also embracing the New & the Old

the audio interface i purchased was the Audio4c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkHgWeT1LYQ&t=3s

Kubrak

I do not know about Mac, but IMHO if new Macs have Thunderbolt, it might be possible to use firewire adapter. If such exist for new Macs. Thunderbolt should be able to be used for firewire.... Mac users could tell you. But thet does not solve the cost of a new Mac.... :-(

You may install Komplete on up to three computers (under the condition one computer will be used at given time.)

If your keyboard is KK Sxx MK1 and you have updated Komplete Kontrol SW to version 3, keyboard would work only in MIDI mode. KK3 does not support MK1. To make it work again you need to downgrade KK to sub 3 version. There is current thread with download of that legacy version. Maybe it has been also added to NI pages.

IMHO you need run Native Access on computer NI SW will be used to authorise use SW for that computer. But I guess no problem to use old Native Access, no need to go for new one.... IMHO there is no problem, except that it might not be possible to update SW/plugins if installers do not support your OS version.

But if things work for you now, no real need to upgrade things.....

PoorFellow

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/104871#Comment_104871

Komplete Kontrol 2.9.6 - Last VST2 supported version

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/17840/komplete-kontrol-2-9-6-last-vst2-supported-version

Compatibility of Native Instruments Products on macOS : https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/360014900358-Compatibility-of-Native-Instruments-Products-on-macOS

Stephen Bish

Thanks for your comment Kubrak.

Yes I can pay the 'Apple Tax' on a Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 converter. I already have the Firewire to Thunderbolt 2. ( My MBP is actually Thunderbolt 1 but the adapter works )

The issue is not the physical connection but the fact that the operating software, in both Mac and Windows, do not support the Firewire protocol in more recent versions. ( Beyond Big Sur & Windows10 ). My MBP will not run Big Sur.

My Komplete Kontrol is version 2.9.4 so I hope that will be OK. Thanks for that warning.

No I am not interested in upgrading anything, mainly due to the age of the computer but I may yet instal on my Windows 10 desktop, just for the hell of it. If nothing else, it will help me tear out what hair I have left.

I have yet to learn how to use 1/2 the stuff I already have in Komplete 10 and have gone through several groove boxes, Push(1) and Maschine mk3 with Jam till I bought an MPC Live 2 a couple of years ago. Ordered an Akai Force which should arrive next week. Sort of a mix of MPC and Push from what I understand.

Ultimately I am moving further and further away from PC based music and more into Live performance.

I was just thrown a curve ball with the Native Access warning. The Firewire issue came as a bit of a knock out blow on top of that.

I think down the track, if I do lash out on a new MBP I will buy one of those RME 8 mic pre's to go into my Babyface. For the moment though, I'll just keep my fingers crossed.

I think the issues I was having with my s88 may have been just a temporary glitch. Yet to sort the V-Drums into Kontakt. Ended up just using the Roland sound module audio outputs into mixer for band practice.

Even there, I'm sure I could set up midi from V-Drums into either MPC or Force. Load my own samples.

Stephen Bish

6exs

These interfaces first caught my eye about 4 years back when I was contemplating moving to iPad for music. It was shortly after that that I installed the 2tb ssd in my MBP. Turned it into a beast. Main thinking was to have all my software available without using external drives which were starting to irritate me.

I just noticed this video the other day while watching a lot of his videos on the Akai Force. Thought occurred to me at the time to use it to interconnect my MPC and Force. Both can be synced via Ableton.

I would be interested to hear how you are finding the Audio 4c. He did refer to stability issues as I remember. Given my main focus these days is live use, that is probably the single most important thing to me personally.

6xes

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/104938#Comment_104938

what i have come to realise with the Audio4c... after going through some frustrations with the stability side of things... is that bitrates & sample rates need to be matched... and do note the bitrate aspect as this was something i would easily overlook, as you could run different bitrates on some audio interfaces, this is problematic on the Audio4c, at least thats what i've come to understand after dealing with the frustration of Windows & Macos interactions

The problem you would encounter if a peice of hardware such as the mpc & force are not matched on both sample rate & bitrate then you will get the stability issues that Maxipox encountered, as not all hardware can have their bitrate changed (maschine+ bitrate is fixed and possibly different to what the force outputs) admittedly this is merely an observation and there is no documentation of bitrate being problematic in the Audio4c's use in hardware to hardware or hardware to OS or vice versa

in a performance context, i wouldnt recommend it... Maxipox's call on this is probably the right one.

i still have to carry out more tests and revisit things as far as multi-channel routing is concerned to get the best out of the device, as the bitrate matching understanding only came very recently, so i need to revisit some issues i once had to fully determine if they indeed are bitrate related

i simply went with the audio4c becos i wanted a means of using both a WindowsPC and a Macos + Ipad's(plural) & having everything at my disposal

Stephen Bish

Thanks 6xes.

You are the first person I've come across who has even heard of them, let alone tried one.

Thank you to all who have commented here. Seems I might be OK, especially if I am a bit more pro-active in making sure I don't "update" anything. I tend to use this MacBook only when at home. I spend about 6 months a year escaping winter, mainly fishing in tropical Nth Queensland. When doing so, I'm mostly on solar power. The Macbook's battery is a bit old ( it was replaced under 'Apple Care Plan' at 3 years old) and the MacBook too power hungry. I tend to use my iPad for online browsing etc.

MacBook is just a bit more comfortable for forum sessions such as this, when at home.

It's main function in life these days is as a centre piece for my home studio, holding all my software instruments and operating as a multi track recorder via Firewire.

As long as it can continue doing so I'm more than happy. Not only with the MacBook, but my Presonus RM16ai mixer and all the software I have accumulated over the last 15 years or so. I also have a lot of Waves mixing software etc. Not interested in their "update plans" either.

Someone above ( can't remember who atm) mentioned the attachment to stuff I've had for a long time. That's very true, but a lot of that stems from familiarity with it. As I said there is so much in Komplete I've never even used yet, and lots I sort of 1/2 understand.

My guitars, even more so. My "desert island" guitar is a '98 PRS McCarty Hollowbody. Someone will be very lucky when I die, but no one's getting their hands on that one before then. I have many other nice ones as well though.

I'm actually thinking that at some time in the near future, a base model 13" MacBook air might be a good investment. Given I can install software on 3 computers and even if I do end up using my Windows machine in the studio, I could use the 'Air' with a small selection of favourites when travelling. Also use it for online stuff such as this when at home. Probably no need to use the Windows machine though. Keep that for car race games.

An interesting thing here though, given the age of the MacBook. Over the 10 years preceding it I went through 3 windows laptops and 3 windows Desk tops. My Mac is the ONLY computer I've used in over 10 years and it looks like it may meet a major part of my needs for quite a few more.

My main concern when first posting here was that my computer was not going to continue working as it had been. It seems that's not the case.

Stephen Bish

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/104923#Comment_104923

Thanks so much for this. At first I thought I was OK but on checking the link I found my version of Komplete Kontrol as installed was later than the one supported by my operating software (10.15.7)

I have downloaded and installed the correct version and have yet to test it but I'm reasonably confident that was the source of the problems I had with my s88.

Those issues combined with the Native Access warning are what sent me into panic mode in the first place.

I can live with "Hey man your computer is way old" warnings. I am too.

PoorFellow

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/105129#Comment_105129

Thank you for the kind feedback. More people appear to have had issues after upgrading and then downgrading again. In your case , with all that is going on , I find it hard to keep up with it all. Anyway , I hope that it will be smooth sailing for you from now on. If not then I hope that you will have your problems sorted one way or the other.

Best wishes and regards ! 🙂

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