I have now Dropped NI

DJ MickyTeK · 2023-10-20T01:36:46+00:00

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DJ MickyTeK

I have now Dropped NI, company has become a nightmare joke.

I certainly would not recommend them to anyone.

Maschine mk3 pile of crashing ******

Traktor S8 dropped for pile of old acquainted Mk2 added couple of sliders and called it Mk4

Software update so slow the kit becomes unusable

No wonder Pioneer are the top Leader,, I am purchasing the Pioneer CDJ3000 and their new Mixer and Never again will I touch anything to do with NI, selling all my NI kit asap before the prices crash

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Jiglo

Unusual post/goodbye note, leaving a production and DJ package for a purely DJ package because your production package is flaky (on your system) and your DJ gear isn't as good as one that costs many times more, ie it's not a like for like swap?

Probably a much wiser decision moving away from DJ controllers though as they all have the inherent flaw in that they're only good for as long as they're supported by the manufacturer, the software vendor and the computer system you use. I've had motorised decks (V7's) that lasted me 2 or 3 years before they got left behind. Taught me a valuable and expensive lesson that 1210/1200s are the best value, followed by CD decks. I've owned Technics turntables over 30 years and only had to swap one out after I dropped a monitor on the tonearm.

I do use a S9 mixer these days, but it's hard to believe now that Pioneer mixers were some of the worst sounding pieces of garbage going in the DJM500/600 days when there were countless better options, but they became the standard in a lot of clubs because of their CDJs being the standard.

D-One

Good luck with your new journey. I waited a long time for a Traktor Z3, gave up, and ended up with a Pioneer DJM S7 and I am quite happy with it.

Controller prices won't increase with new releases no matter how "bad" they might be, sell everything now If you really want out of the ecosystem. The more you wait the less value what you own will have, unless a miracle happens... an MK3 is just a common digital controller not some kind of vintage low production run standalone to ever increase in value.

basehead617

“bye, can i have your stuff?”

Jiglo

Well, the obvious difference is a MK3 is a controller, so it's lifespan is determined by continued support.

Some still sell for a good price though, but ebay prices can highly fluctuate. I think one sold today for £50 less than I bought mine for new, so a lot better than some gear, but that's probably a good day.

MPC 2500 prices rise and fall too. I've sold one, my ltd edition years ago and still have one and sometimes think about selling it, so I occasionally look up the resale price every few months, then change my mind.

The 3000 though is probably the most highly desirable in the range

iNate

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/103894#Comment_103894

Maschine Controllers are fine for OS/Platform support if you're on Windows. macOS is always a risk.

I don't see them dropping the MK3 any time soon. I think the timetable for support for the MK3 and Plus are going to be pretty similar, since they're basically identical devices except for the Standalone Functionality and Firmware in the Maschine+.

The only reason I can see them prematurely ending support, would be in an attempt to force people to buy new units... That is not something I see going over well, especially with MPC One+ only being $699. Many people would just move over, especially since we can expect a price increase over the MK3's MSRP if they were to release a MK4 (and a Maschine+ MK2 would rocket back up to $1,2-399).

I'm probably going to get an MPC One+ soon to replace my MK3. I think Akai is showing a greater ability to iterate on their software and firmware than Native Instruments. I trust them more when it comes to these types of controllers/devices. They also seem to be adding what their users are asking for. Native Instruments just does whatever is most easy for them to do, so they can say "look, we finally have an update to install."

Also, the NKS2 stuff is a bit of a dud for me... After seeing what they did with the new KK controllers, I can't really be optimistic for any new Maschine. Their hardware is generally overpriced relative to what competitors are putting out. Even if they make the Maschine MK4 an NKS2 Controller (that doesn't only work in Maschine software), it would still not be that attractive since NKS was never really that attractive to me to begin with (due to DAWs having such good Mapping Capabilities without the vendor lock-in and insane prices).

Old MPCs sell for good prices due to reputation and hype. There is also a clout factor associated with those machines which simply does not exist with Native Instruments hardware. That is why MPC One resale prices outpace Maschine+ when you compare the second hand prices to the MSRP.

People will overpay for an MPC 2500/3000 simply to have one. They are like the Louis Voiton and Versace of groove boxes/samplers.

I think NI has underestimated the value of supporting their users. Right now, they feel more like a Microsoft or Google than a Music Production software company. A bit... too corporate and dismissive.

Not something I can justify continuing to buy into.

iNate

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/103878#Comment_103878

The problem with Maschine is that NI is slow as molasses.

They took too long to release the Maschine+, which was supposed to be a competitor to the MPC Live devices. Instead, it ended up being a competitor to a much cheaper MPC One, becasue Akai beat them to the punch, by the better part of a year.

With the MPC One+ on the market for $699, it's impossible to sell a MK3 for anywhere near MSRP, and it's almost impossible to sell a Maschine+ for more than a new MPC One+, because users have shown willingness to cross the aisle and snag the better deal. The MPC One is a proven workhorse, at this point, without the Maschine+'s history of performance and stability issues - and Akai has been putting in FAR more work to improving their Firmware and Software than Native Instruments.

The One is basically the Akai equivalent to the Maschine+, due to Native Instruments' lag, so this shoved both of Native Instruments' controllers into weird pricing brackets. On one hand, the MK3 is too close to a One+, which also functions as a standalone. ON the other hand, the Maschine+ functions as a standalone, but at [at least] $300 more than a One+... hard sell, there...

This also pushes resale values down, because unlike MSRP, resale values are not controlled by the hardware manufacturer or vendors. It's controlled by end users' perceived value for the product.

This is why MPCs retain value better. Users value those machines more. Users do not value Maschine as highly. To most users, they are accessories. Most people are not building studios around Maschine as a centerpiece the way many do with MPCs (which also have far better connectivity options than something like the Maschine+).

NI's hardware costs are inflated, which left too much room for Akai to slot a really good product in and split the difference - basically outcompeting both bigger Maschine controllers by occupying a pricing sweet spot in the middle.

The only reason to get the Maschine MK3 is software preference, and that's hard to do when the One[+] also functions as a standalone. And the Maschine+ is almost universally unjustified due to the $300 higher price point and its history of stability and performance issues. The One is a VERY proven workhorse, at this point. Software preferences are the predominant reason to choose it over Akai. Value is not. People eat the value disparity due to preference.

I am not sure how they are going to deal with that. Historically, Native Instruments has tried to be the Apple of PC Controller Manufacturers, but I don't think most people seem them in that light.

Honestly, the same thing has happened in the controller market, with vendors like Arturia and Novation. KK MK3 has had a fairly lukewarm reception, from what I'm seeing, with tons of apprehension in the comments of the YouTube videos that they have sponsored.

I also find it weird that NI would be stalking and replying to comments/answering questions at a Guy Michelmore (sp?) sponsored video (who I love to watch, BTW), but generally avoids similar types of interactions with users on their own forums (outside of support-type queries/incidents).

iNate

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/125682#Comment_125682

That’s just a workflow difference. You do it in a different way. The Maschine+ is an MPC One running Maschine firmware. The force is something more comparable to an Ableton Push.

A Maschine+ is as big as a MacBook. Not sure why anyone would record on that when they can boot up Logic and connect a Scarlett solo to record Vocals or whatever. Trying to record and comp vocals on a groovebox is basically decreasing your quality of life for no reason and no gain.

I have never seen anyone record into Maschine 2 or MPC 2, except to sample and chop stuff up.

And that’s assuming they ever record, as many producers only produce beats that they sell to vocalists, who then record vocals on top of them. So, this is a really weird are of contention. Almost no MPC or Maschine users are going to care about this.

Jiglo

But also, I love the MC-707, SP-16, Polyend Tracker, Blackbox a LOT more than the MPC, just because it is a pretty awful workflow.

That's coming from an older MPC background too. The One is my 3rd MPC after owning a couple of older school MPC's, so i'm not just some M+ fanboy.

PoorFellow

Hope that you will be more lucky with the Pioneer brand investments ! 🙂

iNate

It doesn’t. I. Not saying workflow isn’t massive. I am simply stating what it is. The way you do this in an MPC is simply different.

and also has to be juxtaposed against the MPCs far more efficient editing workflow, so there are pros and cons to both machines all over the place. No one expects them to be identical, but the Maschine+ is still an MPC One+ with Native Instruments firmware and more “problems” that affect its users during normal usage scenarios… at a MUCH higher price point.

The average user getting into production is not going to pay $300 more for an arranger, but super fiddle editing, when they can export stems and arrange in a DAW in minutes. That is throwing money away.