Creating User MIDI Template with S61 mk3 and Komplete Kontrol 3.0.0
Comments
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@MyStudioOne And you obviously don't use 3rd party plugins that don't work with KK. Like Studio One plugins for example. You simply need midi templates for that. And I am going to go out on a limb and guess that I am not the only one who uses them. And that is just one example.
But good for you that you are the middle of the road user type that like to twiddle your knobs and scroll through your sample previews. You are the type they focused on for initial release. Others were not so lucky and they took the plunge on an MK3 without realizing the limitations. Just sayin! or should I say just whining!
===============================That's a pretty broad assumption. But you are correct that I don't use proprietary plugins, but I do use general purpose ones that comply with VST standards from Spitfire, 8DIO, Soundpaint, Heavyocity, Impact Soundworks, Soundiron and many more almost all of which are through KK, but some must be manually loaded. All of which use my own set of customized presets directly related to my projects. I just choose to ensure what I use will be compatible with my DAW in whatever way I need to implement them. But that's a matter of personal choice…like yours is but without the proprietary limitations.
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It does what you need it to do because your use case is narrow. It’s common on this board to hear from users that don’t know what MIDI is, but love the pretty lights on the Kontrol keyboards. They all seem to also have “studios”…. weird. Must be a boomer thing. Me, I need the midi controller to actually control MIDI…just like every other iteration of this product. Last, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation if NI disclosed they took the feature away in the multitude of Youtube videos they commissioned at launch.
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So you are belittling others who dare to speak out about being upset because you are not affected by the issues they are faced with due to removed functionality? Seems pretty narrow minded and lacks understanding in my book.
Let me ask, have you owned an MK1 or MK2 in the past? Did you start using KK at V1.0? Have you been active in bug testing and feature suggestions or the forums here for the last 10+ years trying to contribute to making things better and have you been waiting that long for improvements and features only to see nothing improve that anyone has asked for?
If not, maybe consider you do not have the knowledge you have so rudely stated others should have to judge anyone else here. Just because issues and changes don't affect you personally does not mean it is not an issue for others and personally I feel all users should be able to express their opinions and frustration. Some are happy to just take it as it fits, others want to actually see things improve for the better.
@mystudioOne As far as the "glacial pace", would you prefer it faster with more bugs or delivered when it's actually ready? And how exactly are you measuring this "glacial pace" without any information about the full range of task items, milestone dates/deliverables, critical paths/critical dependencies and team work allocations that are in the project?
Well, likely he has experience as a user (who I have known on these boards and the old boards for years) in the way KK has been developed for 10 years like others here and draw on what has failed to be accomplished in the past. He was also very positive on KK for years but like most of us, has helped many users here on the forums, has likely felt disappointed and let down over the many years of failures to improve like many of us.
Currently the KK software and the MK3 is less functional than anything before it and still doesn't offer much in the way of improvements from the past. Sure it 'may' improve, but many are not kicking back saying "can't wait to see what happens", more like "well, i'll believe it when I see it".
If you were adverse to how things have been going for the last decade, the lack of meaningful progression and the fact we have heard all the talk and promise before in the past to only be left waiting years for something (anything) to happen that we actually asked for, you wouldn't be so quick to throw your huggies at others.
If you're going to whine, please try and whine knowledgeably.
May want to consider taking your own advice on that before whining about others yourself.
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Just to add another take against the "narrow usecase/mindset". I just use a different controller for that stuff because even when we had midi templates in mk2 the functionality was pretty limited and it didn't really do what I needed. So that's why I'm alright with the current state of things and I'm actually looking forward to see what the new midi system offers.
I understand the frustration of those who relied on this feature though.2 -
That was uncalled for, mate. 8 months is quite a considerable time and we would really love to see some progress. Many here (myself included) think that basic midi template editing should have been included from the start. As it was on Mk2.
You don’t need it, we get it. No need to whine about it 🤣
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Here's my perspective. The MK3 is a LOT more than previous model transitions because all of the underpinning of the technology were changed to accommodate it in order to support the emerging standards in MIDI as well as expansion in the core VST architecture. This is not unlike the transition Line 6 made in 2015 when they introduced the replacement for their HD series modelers with the Helix modeler after 5 years in development. It's initial unit was lacking a ton of features normally found in the HD series, but after 6 months the first hint of some of the expanded capabilities were introduced. But even then it was another two years before a significant range of capabilities were put in place that could never have been dreamed of under the older architecture. That was all due to significant progress made in the underlying DSP processing chips and is still evident today with generally two firmware updates per year. That's really why I'm not terribly alarmed by this transition because I've experienced something like it before and the wait was worth it.
I think it's a fact of life when dealing with technology that standards will change, sometime dramatically. But you have to ask yourself how long have we been waiting for bi-directional MIDI interactions knowing there was a protocol for it defined for several years now, and what amazing things will we be able to do with it and the multiple MIDI input/output processing on VST3 in our future efforts?
As for myself I'm willing to be patient to discover such things….
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Look, we all have to play in the same sandbox which is why decorum is important. I don't come here to embarrass or insult people and nor do I expect to be treated that way. Treat others the way you want to be treated. Those are words to live by. 'nuf said.
As far as Komplete Kontrol and the Komplete keyboard goes, I think most of us here love the combination and there is still nothing out there like it, whether that be the MK1, MK2, MK3, KK2.9.6, KK 3.x.
It changed the way all of used plugins because it made it easy to preview sounds and provided a container for curating all our plugins that don't work in Kontakt standalone and so much more.
But we have also always sacrificed a lot of other pretty much standard features you'd find on most other keyboards and I feel that chief amongst them is rich midi editing support.
Today, midi users are still considered fringe by NI and as such we are not a high priority. The actual absense of the midi page on the MK3 proved that outright.
That said, I think most of us think that the MK3 has a boat load of potential beyond what the team has served up thus far but we also have a lot of reason to be sceptical. After all, Komplete Kontrol 2 had plenty of potential as well, and how much did they improve that over the last 10 years?
Here is hoping they make the midi editing page a little better than the current fare (MK2 midi template page). After all, it isn't exactly a very high bar.
History has shown us (and this is across the board) that once NI releases new kit, the software developments pretty much ends as far as improvements go. KK is a prime example and I am not sure what reason there is to think that it is going to be any different with the MK3.
But I think what is telling is that NI did not ask for any feedback from the community about what they'd like to see in the upcoming mid module (at least not that I am aware of?). And that is presumably because their "data" says it is a fringe feature catering to a small percentage of the userbase. And so we are going to get what get.
I still haven't bought an MK3 because it uses "inKomplete Kontrol" and after 8 months, that is more than a little ridiculous. I think we can all agree on that.
Regardless, after all these years and all the frustration and disappointment surrounding the lack of meaninglful improvement of Komplete Kontrol, I still can't imagine life without it and as far as midi support goes, I will continue to get by as I have always done.
Is there an MK3 in my future. More than likely. But I would prefer to not be singing the same old song 10 years from now. Again, here's hoping!
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Respectfully, it is insane to me to need another midi controller as supplement to the most expensive midi controller on the market. I also believe NI grossly underestimated how important this feature is, which is why they are scrambling now to catch up. I am skeptical they will be successful because I remember reading a pre-MK3 launch article where they mentiined how hard it would be to get the same MIDI control functions on their new platform. This is a grave error in my opinion when competitor products such as the Akai Force & entire MPC line can now control DAW like Ableton wirelessly and can control midi at the track level along with project level AND are building a very competitive plug-in suite to challenge a stagnant Komplete offering. Roland is on a similar path whereby most of their plug-ins can be “plugged-out” to dedicated hardware that works on a 1-1 basis as controllers for the software. I have been with NI for a long time and this is all a real let down to me. The MK3 should have advanced all the MK2 features and it was more of a regression. The midi template fiasco is the largest example of this, and I believe speaking up is important.
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That is a false equivalency if only for the reason that NI has a track record of no follow through. They have punted the release date of midi templates about 4 times now and imo are having issues with the implementation. I would add to that the bar for guitar modellers is very low because they have always failed to deliver. It is basically a meme that companies would release new units each year with hefty promises that they would sound like tube amps come to find out they weren’t that great. I would also argue that the Helix doesn’t do much more than older Digitech/Johnson stuff with the exception of having more processing headroom. But even if you disagree, you will have to concede many guitarists would still not touch a Helix in favor of a tube amp. Also, GR5 sounds better imo for direct recording (as does 6&7 but again they are regressions) and so does the Boss Katana with a proper preamp. So, NI was on IRs way before Line 6.
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yall would all be better off putting DunedinDragon on ignore like I have. Also, it would prevent me having to read his posts when quoted by others.
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I find it easier saying “Studio” when referring to the area at the other end of my living room where my music gear is, it’s much quicker to refer to it that way. I agree with your other points though. Born 1964 so I suppose I’m just about a baby boomer 😀
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Yep, I too bought my S88 mk3 knowing the problems and having another controller (Keylab 61 mk2) to use.
Basically I needed an 88 keybed and it seemed to make sense getting the latest rather than the mk2. I had the 61 note mk2 and didn’t use either Maschine integration or midi templates so for me, the wait isn’t a problem.
However I fully 100% understand how frustrated others are and I do understand their need to vent.I read this forum a lot, if I’m honest, sometimes when another user is rightly venting, and post after post is complaining, I think to myself “arghh someone else moaning” but really they are in the right to vent, and if I was in their position I too would be moaning.
Sure I’ve read all of NI’s announcements and I do have high hopes for the future, but at the moment I’m really just using the keybed of my S88 and not a lot else.We still see posts where someone’s just bought their S keyboard and the firmware won’t update or posts where they are told to buy additional equipment. People spending this sort of money are rightly peed off when NI tells them they need to buy a power supply or usb hub. I would have thought by now NI would have started to include a power supply in the box.
I understand how complex programming these promised things are, and how it’s not a days work etc. But it’s blatantly obvious there’s been too many staff laid off in the past and there simply isn’t enough staff left to cope with everything.
It sort of feels like NI programmers are now playing catch-up hence still not having midi templates. I suspect (pure guess) that if we didn’t have this Native Access debacle, Midi templates and other stuff would have been released for the S mk3 I suspect the reason the date has been moved is because Native Access has been a bigger pain than they thought, hence more manpower on NA rather than S series.
I fully sympathise with the staff at NI, said it before and will probably say it again, the people writing this software have no control on release dates, what they are told to work on etc. They will be as frustrated as we are.
I also fully sympathise with owners of the S MK3 that are out of patience.
The damage this slowness is still doing over the web, well NI would be silly to ignore it.
It doesn’t matter really whether there’s info on the NI forums to discredit these comments or not, it’s how the company is currently being perceived by a lot of people (not me) and there’s advice after advice to get out of the NI eco system and go with a competitor. NI need to get things moving to stop this getting any worse.
Most (not all) of the complaints are about their hardware rather than their instruments
Only yesterday I watched a YouTube vid where someone was talking about the current NI sale.
Comments like: (talking about Maschine, all in the last 4 days)
——————-----“Basic maintenance to keep the software up to date with computer operating systems have been very slow compared to competitors.
Updates are limited to a few bug fixes and a change of logo.
The last update is just fixing bugs introduced in the previous update.
There have been no new instruments added to run natively on Maschine for years.
The new Komplete Keyboards no longer support Maschine, which is frankly bizarre seeing how AKAI has successfully extended the market for its MPC platform with the MPC 61 and 32.
All these signs point to the conclusion that NI is no longer interested in Maschine, apart from occasionally launching new extensions. That’s of course very lucrative because they are dead cheap to produce, but NI will not be able to maintain the market share of Maschine against the likes of MPC and Ableton because those 2 are constantly innovating and offering new value.
I love Maschines workflow, but I have to now accept that it’s a legacy platform, not something for the future”
———————————-NI should go back to their roots!
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Bring Absynth back, make a new Reactor, the list goes on.Moving on from Naitive Instruments, no more money from me ………
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Person 1). “NI have abandoned Maschine” --------Person 2) Really, where did you get that from?
Person 1) The keyboard mk2 generation supports Maschine and the mk3 keyboards does not support maschine, it’s a known fact
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This is a great summary. I would like to add a few points - NI used to include power supplies with every device; NI used to release new products (Maschine was once one!) that caused competitors to worry; NI used to have the best in class plug-ins for each category. They were well ahead of using impulse responses on Guitar Rig; Battery was THE software sampler…nothing could touch it and there was a frenzy at a particular point in time it would be replaced by Maschine; and do I even need to drop flowers for Reaktor or Massive? This sad situation is purely (in my opinion) due to NI being taken over by a private equity (PE) firm and hiring a former Meta executive (non-musician) to run product development. The spirit of NI is completely gone. It seems as if they don’t care about the end users and are quick to taunt us with how insignificant we are due to the size of their user base. Competitors such as Akai; Roland; and Korg have all navigated platform changes without a deterioration in user experience over the years. NI continuously fails to even hit the low bar of maintaining the current status quo. Did anyone ask for an upgrade to Native Access? No. It’s comical that they blew up their whole installation program trying to roll out some intrusive subscription model and validated why users hate subscriptions in the process (buggy and intrusive DRM). I will bet MIDI templates are not released this year or fall well short of the MK2 experience if NI does succeed in releasing something.
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It might be insanse but I'm just trying to be practical :)
The midi limitations of the mk2 & mk3 are not the reason I have other midi controllers. I have multiple controllers that serve different purposes and I would still have them even if NI's MIDI implementation was the best in the market.
The day my needs change or this keyboard stops doing what I need I'll just replace it with something else that does. No drama needed. And as I said, I understand people's frustrations but I do find the tone of many complaints very tiring (not only in this forum).
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I have been supplementing with an M Audio Oxygen Pro since I bought my MK2. It’s just really annoying to have to keep two huge keyboards on hand when one could certainly be made to handle everything. I don’t know, maybe I am more upset about this than others because I have been waiting forever for some improved version of the MK2. Akai has done such great things with the MPC and Force lines that it seems like a real missed opportunity for NI. Combined with the sad state of Maschine, it’s hard to see how they recover. This is the first sale of theirs that I have skipped in at least 10 years. I just don’t find myself really wanting to use their products anymore if they aren’t putting a full effort into progressing everything.
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