Maschine Software w/ S88 MK3 only?

JesterMgee

Could also be as simple as how many people have a maschine + KK keyboard registered on their accounts, if the numbers don't stack up then that is what management would consider. Likely the integration buttons on the MK2 for Maschine were designed to get people to consider a Maschine but likely that doesn't entice many and most of us just hate those buttons that can't be used for anything else sitting there.... If they were midi mappable that would be great but, well, that aint ever gonna happen.

Kubrak

Sure, that is another source of data.

And important aspect is that Maschine is bundled only to Maschine HW, not keyboards. And it is not even part of any Komplete Bundle, even not included in KU CE.

ALDREAD

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/94139#Comment_94139

Maschine essentials comes with the a series and the m32

ALDREAD

Maschine essentials comes with the A series and the M32

nightjar

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/94131#Comment_94131

From quote: ..and most of us just hate those buttons that can't be used for anything else sitting there..

YES times 1000!

R_E_D

For anyone wondering which buttons "most of us hate 1000 times" over:

nightjar

Yep.. I don't like a constant reminder of a odd misstep in product design.

A half-hearted effort to do too much to accommodate a rather limited music creation environment.

Like a car interior designer putting a dedicated SiriusXM button on the entertainment section of a dashboard... please... no

R_E_D

Allow me to adjust my needs to your liking, give me a second. You really should have said something earlier...

JesterMgee

I can fully sympathise with users that used the integration with Maschine, it always sucks when something new comes out and you now lose access to what you used, you get use to that worked the moment you become an Apple user tho.

Just because some (like me) did not use these buttons doesn't mean it was a complete waste of space, annoying they could not be repurposed and TBH, if you really like this kind of integration then stick with the MK2 or if you are in the market for a good keyboard that integrates well with Maschine, get a second hand MK2 which will now be pretty affordable. The MK3 is not an attractive enough product that warrants a $1000 upgrade if you have a MK2 really.

I think it is simple fact that if you are looking to redesign something and the question comes up about those buttons "how many people does our data show actually use this" and the answer is "less than 10%" (or whatever the number is, that is just an example) then makes sense to just remove it. Car manufacturers don't stick ash trays in new cars anymore for those few who still like to smoke in their cars. I am sure the browsing and transport control / mixer will at least come back down the track, there has been many hints this was planned to be looked into next year, like always NI seem rushed to market so expect the MK3 to release with some limitations and issues. Just hope their development speed improves a bit from what the MK2 was like, still have the faith bar set low based on my experiences.

nightjar

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/94670#Comment_94670

You do not have to adjust your needs to my likings at all.

You just need to find a product out there that better satisfies yours.

The Kontrol SMK3 is apparently not for you.

theonlymj

I think NI's messaging is impacting people's take. The data they've collected may well be accurate, but it might not tell the entire story. A youtuber I enjoy made a video using the Maschine + and S series, in which he went from playing the keys to reaching back over to the Maschine to browse sounds. Clearly he didn't know that the S series could be used to create new groups. Those 5 annoying buttons might not get used because NI hasn't done a good job of educating consumers on what they're there for. The fact that they are not MIDI mappable is also NI's fault. I own a Maschine Jam. I can create new tracks in Ableton with the touch of a pad. These buttons could have been put to use, or repurposed in other DAW's. That "track" button could actually be used to add tracks. Removing functionality is going to hurt sales. I'm not going to get a Kontrol MK3 that doesn't work with Maschine when literally every other existing NI keyboard does. It's not specifically about removed buttons, it's about removed functionality. I'm sure a simple "shift + buttons up-top" could act in the same fashion as those existing buttons do, but this has been Kompletely removed. See what I did there.

NI can say what they want, but this is a shakey launch. Having a bunch of youtubers showing incomplete software on a device with less physical buttons and a ton of real estate on its surface is troubling. I own a Jam, Mk3, M32, Komplete 14 CE and S88 Mk2. I've owned a Plus and S88 Mk1 in the past. I love NI and this is the single biggest thud they've released since I've been using their products. People say they don't need faders and pads, but this is the industry. You can't find another controller in this price range that doesn't have faders and pads. Much like those annoying Maschine buttons, sometimes you just need to throw it on there so people FEEL like they're getting a good value. NI's philosophy seems to be, "we'll give them what the algorithm told us they most need." How many people here would not buy the new keyboard specifically because they added pads and faders?

They have the most highly NKS integrated keyboard that does the least of basically anything else, including working with their own "DAW" Maschine. I just hope for the + owners sake that they don't say it too won't be able to run the new NKS2 because it was designed for a single screen or something to that effect. I already know that's going to happen with the Maschine MK3, but the + is standalone so in theory it should have more processing power than the Komplete MK3.

I'm sure we'll find out soon enough.

R_E_D

Nightjar, before you go too far giving clues on how to deal with our investments in workflows and equipment, I would kindly remind you that no one really cares what you or me think - not enough to affect their choices, because - and this is key - we are not the same. You made your complaint about Maschine, I hope you feel better.

nightjar

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/94677#Comment_94677

I share my sincere thoughts about the Kontrol SMK3 design as a counter to those who proclaim to speak for everyone.

Quite a few present their thoughts as if it is a given that every "professional" music maker actively wants faders and pads.. that absolutely no one serious could not want them.

These people are wrong.

I acknowledge that my preference is design is simply that.. my preference, and other serious minded people might want faders and pads. That's fine.

I am fortunate that I am in alignment with the decision makers for this product design.

Too many Maschine users think that Maschine is NI's most important product.

It's not.

R_E_D

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/94681#Comment_94681

Maybe you want to try again regarding those who proclaim to speak for everyone; "most of us just hate those buttons" is not my statement. I am also not the one blanket-claiming "these people are wrong".

As the posts on this forum as well as most comments on social platforms suggest, many people - just like myself - invested in this ecosystem based on the proposed value offered by NI: DAW like functionality (however limited) and access to Kontakt libraries. I didn't mind the limited functionality because it offered something I was missing in my setup: a quick way to write. Secondly, Maschine is not a dead product, there was nothing to suggest it would stop rising even to the high standards of Nightjar one day.

Comparing the value and expansive functionality provided through Maschine to a car ash tray, will make perfect sense the moment I see the person who bought a car because he wanted an ash tray. The suggestion is funny, I just hope it doesn't become NI's stance because then it becomes downright offensive.

So there we have it. It's not about buttons. It's about an investment in not just some hardware, but also in software, expansions and libraries. Killing such wealth of functionality is likely going to make some people think twice about investing more into this ecosystem, and who can blame them?

I like NI a lot. They make killer product and my son's next keyboard will likely have their logo. I am not worried, because I know what I am getting into. But I am not going to act like the proposed value is the same as before, nor will I celebrate losing some absolutely great functionality. I hope they reconsider.

nightjar

If I were wanting to invest the time to develop deeper motor skills in creating music with a pad controller, the new Finger Drums Pads from Yamaha look a lot more worthwhile... and by having them as as independent device, I could position it best in relation to my body position...

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical_instruments/drums/finger-drum-pads/fgdp-50/index.html

Would be very interesting to see NI do something similar with re-thinking how to optimize the actual most important aspect of a controller.....