Stems

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I have been a loyal customer of N! for over 10 years but, finally, my relationship with them is coming to an end. Patiently year after year I've waited for some new innovation that I would be hysterical about. So what did we get, ooh yeah, Pattern player and Maximizer. LOL, Both of these features are ridiculously not wanted to by the community. The latest, outstanding new feature across other platforms is STEMS.. NI for whatever reason must have blinders and it will be probably another two years before NI have this feature. Serato, Rekord Box, and Algoriddum is leading the industry in innovation while NI is in quicksand. Like I said after 10 years of sluggish development even with the addition of iZotope, Plugin Alliance, and Brainworx this company still needs a lifeline. Perhaps Pioneer should acquire NI just like they did  Serato Audio Research Limited and the frustration with NI and Traktor Kontrol Plus.

Comments

  • c0nsul
    c0nsul Member Posts: 299 Pro
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    As a loyal user for over 10 years you should know NI developed Stems and Traktor introduced Stems 5 years ago in Traktor 2.9. Mappable to all controllers and as a free update. It took technology 5 years to built some (not so good) live stem separation which is indeed still lacking in Traktor but on the roadmap.

    https://www.digitaldjtips.com/reviews/stems-traktor-2-9-kontrol-s8-d2-f1/

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,809 Expert
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    My bet is live STEM separation will come soon.... In few weeks.

    What puzzles me more is that NI did not push STEMs more by adding STEM file export to Maschine. It would not cost much human resources and would have been helped using STEMs in Traktor a great deal....

  • PK The DJ
    PK The DJ Member Posts: 1,214 Guru
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    Traktor introduced Stems

    Not the same thing at all. Traktor's implementation of prerecorded stems that had to be purchased was/is a complete flop - because most DJs want to use stems from any commercial hit track from any decade or genre, not the tiny selection of obscure stuff from relative unknowns.

    That's what the competitors have introduced. Stems created from any track, live - and DJs love it.

    Serato, Rekord Box, and Algoriddum

    Correction: VirtualDJ, Serato, Rekordbox and Algoriddim.

  • c0nsul
    c0nsul Member Posts: 299 Pro
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    Well, I would love it if it sounded good. But IMHO virtual dj is the only product with ok-ish results. And it still can not compete to stem separation with dedicated software like nuo, rx8 or ripx. I think, at this point software technology still has to develop and improve a lot. Pioneer acquired Serato because of their technological advantage in stem separation. And as Izotope stuff comes more and more into Traktor, I´m pretty sure we will see live stem separation in Traktor in the near future.

  • PK The DJ
    PK The DJ Member Posts: 1,214 Guru
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    Hmmm. I just tried separating a track using RX10. It took 8 minutes and the results to my ears were no better than VDJ which took seconds before it was ready to play after loading. To extract and save to a file took VDJ 1m30s.

  • Oxy
    Oxy Member Posts: 91 Helper
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    If they sound like on Denon or Rekordbox, no thanks.

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,809 Expert
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    @PK The DJ

    NI came with idea of STEMs and has introduced the concept to DJing. That it had not much support from producers is another story....

    That time NI could not come with online separation, it would take ages on common notebook of that time.... Eight years ago... Imagine the increase of CPU computing power over that period. It may be eight fold, or so.... It would take almost one and half hour in case of RX10 and quarter of hour in case of VDJ (if it uses just CPU and not dedicated AI chip, otherwise much longer....)

  • lord-carlos
    lord-carlos Member Posts: 2,494 Expert
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    Programs such as NuoStems can use the GPU for stem separation and it should be way quicker. I have not tested it though.

  • Quade
    Quade Member Posts: 231 Advisor
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    Highly Doubt STEMS will be released anytime soon & If do, it will most likely be on Subscription basis. Milking the Artists how ever they can.

    🤣

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,809 Expert
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    Why should it come for free? It may be on Subscription, or Traktor 4.

  • WhistlerDJ
    WhistlerDJ Member Posts: 24 Helper
    edited August 2023
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    You can have VDJ 2023 for $20 per month on subscription. I did the switch a few months back, and even my non-MIDI compatible S4 Mk3 works with it. Stems separation in VDJ is better than Serato's. As a matter of fact, the whole experience is just better. Spent a few days to find the right skin, customising it and learnt how to use vdjscript.

    Library management is on another level, streaming is there if needed, having my database with above 50k songs doesnt take ages to load, no flickering, flexible beatgrids and list goes on. The only things I'm missing from Traktor are the effects and the phase meter. But that is a trade off i can live with. What NI doesnt understand is if someone does the switch they wont go back, even if they add all the new features on their roadmap. As a long time loyal Traktor user I can't see why I should go back.


    P.s.: haptic feedback and the screens don't work in VDJ, if that's important for you.

  • PK The DJ
    PK The DJ Member Posts: 1,214 Guru
    edited August 2023
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    The effects in VDJ are almost unlimited, as it can host VST plugins (and even VSTi) so the world is your lobster. You're not stuck with the onboard ones.

    Also the scripting language behind the scenes in VDJ is ridiculously powerful, meaning that often a thing that isn't natively possible can be achieved with some clever coding by the gurus.

    Example: When the 'duck down' effect was introduced on a Pioneer product, the VDJ script gurus emulated it by using some clever code and existing FX.

  • Patch
    Patch Member Posts: 244 Pro
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    VDJ gets more tempting by each release. Their latest press shot (regarding the updated stems separation) is mind blowing if it's true.

    Less than 1 second per minute of audio to split stems out. That's wild.

  • Scratch-E Con
    Scratch-E Con Member Posts: 89 Advisor
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    Serato's implementation is also pretty solid. Some songs work better than others but I suppose that's everywhere.

    Real time stems, Phase HID support and native HW support for the best battle mixers out there has turned me away from Traktor as my go-to DJ software. It's a pity. But it's a fact.

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