CC27 CC64 sus and soft pedal settings

Ed 100
Ed 100 Member Posts: 14 Member

Hi, both my pedals physically function ok yet the soft pedal (CC67) does not function at all, either in Kontakt, Steinberg Grand, or East West Pianos. I raised a ticket but that was weeks ago. I asked Steinberg and was told it is a 'bug' in the Grand (don't believe them) East West tried various solutions. but admitted they could not help. I am increasingly drawn to my Komplete Kontrol S88 Mk2. Perhaps a hardware problem? Any ideas or advice gratefully received. Oh, they used to work fine by the way, but had a hard disc replacement following a major crash. Thanks


Ed

Best Answers

  • Ed 100
    Ed 100 Member Posts: 14 Member
    Answer ✓

    I think you have something here! The midiox message I sent to your colleagues (screenshots) showed just one click on and one click off for sustain pedal however, soft pedal gave out a stream of continuous information i.e. the keyboard is functioning but not correctly. I tried your method, but it is all quite new to me. Notwithstanding, the CC assigned to pedal B is 11, which I thought was volume, as ctrl change. I did actually find CC67 (whilst connected) and it is assigned to knob labelled CC14 (the leftmost knob). Rather than get lost in the manual could you advise how to reassign CC14 knob to 67 (I don't see an X) and reassign 14 to, well nothing? You are creeping up my Christmas card list.

  • Ed 100
    Ed 100 Member Posts: 14 Member
    Answer ✓

    Hi Jeremy_NI and Uwe303

    Thank you for all the ideas you have sent me all of which I have tried several times without success. I have solved the problem myself and kick myself at how simple it was to fix! I had brought the issue up with amongst others, Steinberg, EWQL and Thomann none of whom could resolve it as all focus seemed to be on a sustain pedal, which I had repeatedly stated had worked ok. In fact MIDI-OX provided the answer. The sustain pedal behaved like a switch whereas the soft pedal behaved as a CONTINUOS stream, so I changed the pedal properties (pedal B) to SWITCH inside the midi parameters of Komplete Kontrol and voila...how easy was that? Thank you for your assistance which was very helpful, but should anybody have difficulty in the future it is invariably the simple things which are at fault. Thank you.

Answers

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 2,911 mod

    Hello,

    are you sure, that the instruments support it. Maybe a look in the manual of the instrument can help, there must be some sort of midi implementation chart.

  • Ed 100
    Ed 100 Member Posts: 14 Member

    Hi Uwe303, thanks for responding, but I have exhausted all midi options, or at least I am pretty sure I have, and the behaviour is the same whatever instrument I attempt to use it with.

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 2,911 mod

    I also tried a bit, I have not found one kontakt piano that responds to cc67, it would double the size of the instrument, cause you would have to sample all layers with that pedal pressed on the piano, I guess most creators of instruments don't do it. Like I said you would have to find an instrument where the manual says it reakts to cc67.

  • Jeremy_NI
    Jeremy_NI Customer Care Posts: 8,918 mod

    @Ed 100 What Kontakt instruments have you tried? Are they supposed to support soft pedalling? I think our keyboards only support half damper pedals: How to Configure Sustain / Expression Pedals on KOMPLETE KONTROL Keyboards

    What kind of pedal are you using? Is it in the list here? List of Compatible Pedals with KOMPLETE KONTROL Keyboards

  • Ed 100
    Ed 100 Member Posts: 14 Member

    Thanks Jeremy. The soft pedal is basically just a spring loaded switch, as is the sustain pedal. Both have worked previously very well whatever instance I use them i.e. with other instruments etc. I tried what you suggested several times and the settings in Kontrol Editor too. Thanks for the advice though.


    Ed

  • Jeremy_NI
    Jeremy_NI Customer Care Posts: 8,918 mod

    Ok, but you mention Kontakt, what instruments or libraries were you using that are supposed to support this soft pedal? What other applications or programs exactly? What model is the pedal?

  • Ed 100
    Ed 100 Member Posts: 14 Member

    Hi again Jeremy, The pedal is VFP 1 / 10 Italian made. the other programs specifically where the pedal has previously worked ok are: Steinberg The Grand 3, EWQL Bosendorfer 88, Bechstein, Steinway, Yamaha and virtually all my Kontakt pianos. Had there been a problem previously I would have pursued a remedy once it occurred. Since your last message I have sent screen shots of MIDI OX to support my NI Ticket. Unfortunately your colleagues tend to be very busy these days so any more suggestions are quite welcome.

  • Jeremy_NI
    Jeremy_NI Customer Care Posts: 8,918 mod

    @Ed 100 Thanks, so I don't have these products to test at hand or the same pedal but I maybe have an idea. If it used to work, it's probably that the MIDI information from the pedal was carried out through the keyboard (even if there is no way to set it up on the keyboard itself). So, if it's not working now, it could be because CC 67 is assigned to another button or knob of the keyboard and that creates a conflict.

    Try to open the Komplete Kontrol standalone application with the keyboard disconnected.

    Check for any CC 67 assignment here and unassign it with the x, also check the buttons.

    Now do the same with the keyboard connected:

    Check for CC67 anywhere, also Buttons, touchstrip, etc...or create a new default template, it should reset every MIDI assignment to default.

    Other than that, I have no idea!

  • Ed 100
    Ed 100 Member Posts: 14 Member
    Answer ✓

    I think you have something here! The midiox message I sent to your colleagues (screenshots) showed just one click on and one click off for sustain pedal however, soft pedal gave out a stream of continuous information i.e. the keyboard is functioning but not correctly. I tried your method, but it is all quite new to me. Notwithstanding, the CC assigned to pedal B is 11, which I thought was volume, as ctrl change. I did actually find CC67 (whilst connected) and it is assigned to knob labelled CC14 (the leftmost knob). Rather than get lost in the manual could you advise how to reassign CC14 knob to 67 (I don't see an X) and reassign 14 to, well nothing? You are creeping up my Christmas card list.

  • Jeremy_NI
    Jeremy_NI Customer Care Posts: 8,918 mod
    edited August 2023

    If it's with the keyboard connected then there is no x you should just need to put the Control Change back to CC 14, or as I've said you can reset the template to default by pressing the little plus sign under template on the right.

  • Ed 100
    Ed 100 Member Posts: 14 Member

    Set everything to what it should be, but pedal still doesn't work. If I find a soloution I will post it here. Thanks for your help anyway.

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 2,911 mod
    edited August 2023

    I read in the east west manual for the pianos that cc67 needs to be 127 in order to set soft pedal on, all other values are interpret as of - maybe check that too. Cause normally everything above and a value of 64 is on and everything below is off.

  • Ed 100
    Ed 100 Member Posts: 14 Member

    Thanks Uwe303, but CC67 is already set to 127 in the controller editor. But I appreciate the advice.

  • Ed 100
    Ed 100 Member Posts: 14 Member
    Answer ✓

    Hi Jeremy_NI and Uwe303

    Thank you for all the ideas you have sent me all of which I have tried several times without success. I have solved the problem myself and kick myself at how simple it was to fix! I had brought the issue up with amongst others, Steinberg, EWQL and Thomann none of whom could resolve it as all focus seemed to be on a sustain pedal, which I had repeatedly stated had worked ok. In fact MIDI-OX provided the answer. The sustain pedal behaved like a switch whereas the soft pedal behaved as a CONTINUOS stream, so I changed the pedal properties (pedal B) to SWITCH inside the midi parameters of Komplete Kontrol and voila...how easy was that? Thank you for your assistance which was very helpful, but should anybody have difficulty in the future it is invariably the simple things which are at fault. Thank you.

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