Why can't the Komplete Kontrol S series send MIDI out on the DIN port while powered over USB?

Perceptes
Perceptes Member Posts: 3 Member

I have my Komplete Kontrol S61 Mk2 connected to my computer through a powered USB hub, but I also connected it to a MIDI interface for controlling hardware synths in MIDI mode. After a lot of confusion that the MIDI interface wasn't receiving input from the keyboard, I discovered that plugging it in via USB prevents MIDI data from being sent over the MIDI out port. Why?? This means that if I want to use the keyboard to control external gear without turning my computer on, I have to manually unplug the USB cable and buy a dedicated power cable for it. This makes absolutely no sense to me.

Best Answer

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,480 Expert
    Answer ✓

    Yep, poor design. When USB power is applied it sets to PC controller mode and the MIDI is suppose to be used as an OS output but as you find, for people that like to use it for actual hardware it makes it useless without the adapter.

    Its what happens when engineers design products instead of musicians.

Answers

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,480 Expert
    Answer ✓

    Yep, poor design. When USB power is applied it sets to PC controller mode and the MIDI is suppose to be used as an OS output but as you find, for people that like to use it for actual hardware it makes it useless without the adapter.

    Its what happens when engineers design products instead of musicians.

  • R_E_D
    R_E_D Member Posts: 32 Helper
    edited July 2023

    Some dev could have skipped a coffee break all these years and implement a basic Shift+MIDI shortcut to switch between the two. There is literally no way around it. I am sure the commit note reads something like "This keyboard is so good, let's inject the worst UX idea on the surface of this planet: you have to literally plug/unplug cables to change modes, LOL. Don't you touch this!"

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,480 Expert

    Could have also just been an option in the dedicated SETUP button along with several other useful options but what I have learned over the years, most of this stuff is not really designed with users needs in mind, it's almost always a catalyst to upsell into more products such as Kontakt instruments and expansion libraries. Making it actually work with other stuff is just not really the focus, that is left to users to figure out...

  • Perceptes
    Perceptes Member Posts: 3 Member

    For anyone who comes across this thread, Matthew from NI confirmed that this still doesn't work even on the Kontrol S MK3: https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/95293#Comment_95293

  • psterr766
    psterr766 Member Posts: 1 Member
    edited October 2023

    This is Kompletely unacceptable! Now, I'm going to have to get a PCI USB-C board and hope there is an available slot in which to stick it. Failing that, I'm going to return my S61 MK3 and tell NI to do with it what I couldn't do with the USB-C board.

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 1,732 mod
    edited October 2023

    PCI ? You probably mean PCI Express X1 / X4 . Also , please do not try to insert electronics into places where they don't belong (your butt included) (it most likely won't fit and you may get hurt) !

    Before buying things like that it's best to check if there is an open slot to insert it in, with respect to your computer then that means consulting the manufacturers manual or the manual for the computer motherboard !

  • NativeSound
    NativeSound Member Posts: 1 Newcomer
    Hi. Follow these indications: https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/115003187329-Sending-USB-and-5-Pin-MIDI-Simultaneously-from-KOMPLETE-KONTROL-S-Series-Keyboards
  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,480 Expert

    You failed to read the original question where he asks how to get the MIDI from the DIN without turning on the computer.

    The issue has always been if you power up the keyboard using USB, it will set the keyboards MIDI port to computer MIDI only without any option to set it to use the MIDI DIN, meaning you cannot connect the keyboard to hardware and power from USB, you MUST power with the power adapter and physically unplug from any USB connection.

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 808 Pro

    Are you referring to the MK3 or MK2 keyboard?

    The MK3 will output MIDI via the 5pin with USB power supplied to either port. It's only when the data & power USB-C port is connected to a computer and the NI software is running that it switches into the alternate less-useful MIDI mode.

    I just went through this with some Roland gear I bought off Reverb. I thought it was faulty, but I tried a different MIDI keyboard and everything worked fine. So I checked the forum and found the thread Perceptes posted.

    In that thread, NI had stated with the MK3 it's a software feature, so there's the possibility it can be changed in a firmware update but it didn't sound high on their list. They also said the MK2 will not be able to output MIDI over USB and DIN because of hardware reasons, no firmware update can fix it.

    I was able to work around the issue by using MIDI Patchbay which will take any MIDI input source and route it to any MIDI output source. But my setup is different from others in the thread, my computer is always on and my keyboard shares the same desk as my computer too.


  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,480 Expert
    edited February 11

    Literally says MK2 in the original post. MK3 has a dedicated power input for USB C power so as to avoid this problem and to save confusing the situation with details not applicable to the original question, I only talked in reference to the MK2.

  • ltrimble
    ltrimble Member Posts: 2 Newcomer
    Ive been trying to do this with my 61S MK3 and can't believe it doesn't work lol. I just bought a Nymphs, which is resting on the empty top right of the kontrol (which looks pretty slick) but I to unplug my keyboard from my computer to get the Midi Out port to work. That's actually insane, NI come on.....
  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 808 Pro
    edited February 15

    If you have a USB sound interface with MIDI DIN connectors you use MIDI Patchbay to route a USB MIDI device to MIDI-DIN.

    But I agree that it's a bit wild that the DIN ports on the MK3 don't work while connected to a PC. This is the only MIDI controller I own that operates this way.

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