Maschine plus upgrades (ableton push 3 released)
Comments
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This same approach revisited 2024 with a range of “dumb” controllers!
Smart!!!!
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How much do we need to hear the word "iPad" more? The iPad, the imagination of iPad, the connector of iPad, the coitus if iPad and his owner.
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Sounds like KORG Volca series and the part there the sun don't shine.
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Actually that was a big fail. And all those devices cannot be used anymore because they are not compatible with today’s Apple products.
Stupid!!!
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Not totally true but false neither. Most of these controllers are class compliant so they can work but brands such akai not every time put an alternative usb output on these so you need to add an adapter from 30pin connector or manage a diy solution.
In other products like alesis io dock they learnt and put a clever solution.
...but still lacked of usb host and products announced to have that capability didn’t hit the market due Apple releasing cck2usb3 adaptor with power charge included. That could be seen as clunky but resolved most issues as “being just a toy” blahblah over these days.
Nowadays with usb-c iPads that can even power connected devices (I’m not sure up to how much since I still use old and cheap devices) and/or audio/midi interfaces with incorporated usb hub (from akai eie red to arturia audiofuse through novation audiohub) you only need a cable from the iPad to the interface. If you want to add midi controllers like @LostInFoundation suggested the plug into the hub.
I know it isn't perfect or full round solution like the akai keyboard host but it's similar approach to maschine+ as a center hub (with integrated battery btw) and the "dumb controller" approach will be more similar to the new Akai mpc keyboard.
I'm not going to defend once again this approach because I can see myself the appealing of just a machine (not pun intend) but if we are discussing possible future products (or alternatives to, or enhancements with actual gear...) then we should almost try to be precise in our arguments.
If we are going just to hate and insult then it's lost time and effort. The saddest part is people ranting about no updates and abandonware but I tried to warn about this from the beginning (old forum) and people keep believing what they wanted instead check facts become reality check.
M+ born dead because it couldn't deliver what NI promised partly due by its design choices and release time (market). Let's leave aside AS transition... it was outdated because even being more powerful than akai proposals it was based on x86 (ARM was considered but ditched because NI is too x86 centric) and that extra power isn't real when Akai did a better job "optimising" their software... which was early developed on iPads and ported since these dumb policies by Apple to change ports etc etc.
Apple see the iPad as standalone and the touch interface as the controller. Usb and so was added for pendrives and sd mostly (but almost core midi and audio was on place for the weirdos like myself). Step by step was entering the "let's users plug something" (aside mfi policy designed to cashcow brands) and it's only nowadays (or almost that's my hope with Logic for iPad) when Apple is taking seriously the iPad as a computer for musicians, even what Apple see as professionals has nothing to see with what users believe.
In conclusion, I can see what @LostInFoundation proposes (and I even have some mockups and attempts) but the moment Apple decides to wreck something you are sold (like the latest 16.5 breaking CCK charging) so hard to defend that approach for anybody asking for "seamless integration" and that's why I look into Toraiz or similar. Even if you freeze devices like me (not allowing updates).
I don't expect NI releasing iPad apps anymore (but maybe Apple delivering the right tools to make desktop easy to port...) or updated M+ mk2 neither. The upgradable approach of Push3 seems a nice idea but we should wait until see how is goes in the long shot.
I said long ago that the worst competitor to M+ wasn't akais or iPads but Maschine mk3 with macbook air (M1). Since NI focused into AS transition and any M+ development has to be first done on Maschine desktop... you have more power, fast updates and battery power solution and it cost less than M+ release price. If you don't want to look into a screen, buy a mac mini and make it headless. Even an old model will get full versions instead M+ adaptations...
Not perfect but M+ isn't it neither or we were not discussing options.
jm2c
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2024 is not 2011
USB-C and Smart Connector is not 30-pin lightning
iPadOS <=> macOS integration is key to lessor distinct development costs
Apple Silicon is 13 years more advanced in abilities
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The same was for mixpults and so on..... Unless iPad has the same OS as Mac, it is total nonsence.
It would be sound only if there is standard (size, display minimal requirements, connection, ....) for plugin devices. One could interchangeably plug in Apple thing, Win thing, Android thing .....
And the standard should hold for decades.... So that one might plug new thing into old gear....
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2037 is not 2024
2050 is not 2037
continue as long as you wish (or as long as large corporations want to increase profits)
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Once again... class compliant gear can be plugged into my old iPad 3 (first retina) or iPhone 4s... the OS was never the true problem but "ports" where Apple did good money for adaptors but hey... Firewire was far superior to usb1 and 2 like Lightning was far superior than most of usb until usb-c which has some improvements but also some downsides (and Apple has been enforced to use it in Europe). I can use an ancient Vestax whatever but I can't use an S4mk1 and even Z1 was able to work with iPads (30pins or lightning) by mfi where Apple let developers with non-class compliant solutions (aka HID) embed their drivers inside the app but asking for a fee for the extra work (on security) meanwhile class compliant (standard) was already set inside the OS. Android is still struggling with that... and wintablets never weren't an option since people who has tried a true touch interface (where did go Nokia Lumia?) never will accept ****** windows approach and just get a laptop for a fraction of a surface cost. Period.
Apple works with standards where these improve what they have already if not just do their thing and that's why they arrive where they arrive and why people using it seem fanboys but they are just satisfied users spreading their joy ("the best sellers aren't sellers but happy users recommending" 1st amendment from iCult lol)
BUT keeping on topic aside of true nosense (talking things that you never tried by yourself mate...) the only way to made such standard will be NI releasing themselves a tablet system (so detaching some part from M+) like I pointed again and again with my NI+ concept.
Which could host any of NI apps or all... the basic development is already done and will be a neat solution for Traktor users too. That's the most standard you can go with music gear without pissing someone else but obviously you need commitment with that strategy like Denon/Akai. The problem again is NI has become "only software" ditching the hardware side (or maybe not... what says monthly roadmap change?) and that means prioritisation of "stablished OS out there instead reinventing the wheel" (what seems M+ was at this point) and translates into get some M+ developers into porting everything into Apple Silicon (and iron bug windows10 issues) before talk about porting anything else into Linux-in-a-box... but again How much should NI ask for something like that? 1000€?
Not going to happen... I can duck-tape a mac mini under a Maschine mk3 for less money and get already that because NI is prioritising AS transition and Win10 fixes because M+ was a so-so idea with the worst timing possible (it was launched 2 years later from its original inception due lay off, sales, future merging... and the same time when Apple announced its transition into new Silicon)
M+ delayed AS transition making NI one the latest to get their basics into the new architecture and it's still giving NI some revenue flow income. If NI decides push this path far away or not, we'll see... but they arrived late to this field and I see lot of struggling in most areas but at the same time I see typography and icon changes, development/management position movements... and my gut says that the NI which released M+ isn't the actual NI anymore, for good and bad.
Let's hope I'm totally wrong and more good related to M+ in the future
:praying icon:
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OS on iPad is not problem????? And why do people pray to have something that runs on MacOS to run also on iPadOS?
SW runs on Win x86 tablets just fine. And SW runs, unlike from iPad that waits, waits and waits if something is ported...
iPad is not standard and except for USB-c connector and WiFi/BT it hardly follows any HW industry standards....
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whoever flagged this is a big baby haha. Ipad is not a good solution for anything. You cannot repair or service it yourself. You cannot even remove or replace the battery. Support solutions which give you ownership of your own stuff and enable you to repair or otherwise service it by yourself. At least just get a thinkpad and ableton. If soldering scares you that's fine. All you will generally have to do with a thinkpad is unscrew the panels for the RAM and HDD/SSD. It's like legos. it will be okay. taking responsibility for your things and putting time into configuring/personalizing your things is good for building character. don't be afraid to grow. :P
Also, on another note. My solution to music tech companies being poo-poo at their own jobs has just been to move ITB & stop buying gear/software entirely. Repairing & replacing computer parts is easier and still more accessible than fixing a Push or a Maschine and there's no point in throwing cash at these companies in hopes that they will finally give us the thing we need or fix their platforms so that they don't impede our workflow.
Seriously though, as boring a solution as it is, just go in the box.
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Can you stick to the discussion? OS on iPad is not the problem for using it with old devices as you pointed.
People ask to apps being ported (or better said adapted) because they usually want the portability and touchscreen and now using the same chips (M-Series) seems an excuse for these users not getting desktop apps into iPads. Not my case, I say Logic is game changer but I don't say "it's desktop 1:1 experience". I don't want that and that's precisely why win86 isn't the solution neither.
The only people waiting is who don't understand it. If someone needs Traktor (desktop) on iPad they can use DjPlayer or Djay Pro. Both far superior and DVS enabled (the first running over iPad since 1st gen...)
iPad is not standard but it's the standard where tablets mirror. It's the only one device on its field, surface or Android aren't on the same field. You can understand it or keep yourself under a rock (or try an iPad before continue trying to argue without true experience) but none of that will made change the reality about tablet market. People don't ask about Surface adaption (touchscreen) because x86 software work on these... People who use a Surface (should) understand what's make it totally different from iPad experience but also people (in this forum day after day) ask for iPad apps (even without knowing neither what it means in usability or limitations) because these is what they get.
iPad are big sell so number of users increases and these ask for at the forums. Surface users have what they "want/need" and that's it. OS is a part and iPad comes from iPod>iPhone with its pros and cons. As I said latest iterations seem getting more mature as "computer" with releases like Logic and, let's hope, some kind of macOS apps adaptation to fulfil these users asking for full desktop apps experience but Apple will deliver what they think this means and probably not being the cup of tea of most of these users...
iPad could be not the standard you believe but since apps like DaVinci Resolv (among others) are released for the platform and not for Android it's probably the best option for professionals searching for optimised battery/touch interface experience vs Android/Wintablets.
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You must have such a beutiful and big character. You must have a blast time in the box. Wow. Going to change my ways. You showed me the light. Thank you!
Have you heard about Linux? Peeps say it is free and you can spend even more time tinkering, not making music!
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Apple don't want to but there are people working against that idea.
Now show us how to fix the lack of software on linux platform aside Bitwig... and please don't bring wine or similar solutions... we are musicians and need plugnplay tools... ;)
PS: for the price of a Raspi4 I can buy an old (but more powerful and with lots of amazing music apps) iPhone SE.
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All it takes to use a computer is literacy in your first language and basic organizational, pattern recognition, and logic skills. You don't even have to do any math to understand how a computer works well enough to maintain it yourself.
I'm not running linux. Still on Windows 10, although I am strongly considering moving to and learning to use linux for audio.
But also, I would like to pose a question: why the heck are you involved in electronic music, if you hate learning to use technology? The computer has been the most efficient and effective means of recording and performing music for at least two decades by now. I'm disabled and simply refuse to carry more than 20lbs worth of gear to a show, and I find the attitudes of able-bodied folk toward computers to be enraging. You have to take time to learn any given piece of music gear you buy, whether it's Maschine or an Elektron Box, so why not just consolidate everything to a narrow range of interfaces and software paradigms by using a laptop? If consumers weren't ignorant and were willing to take personal responsibility for themselves and their incapacity to use computers, the Framework Laptop wouldn't be considered an innovation. All computers would naturally be modular, and the end user would be allowed to dig into their OS and configure it to their liking. But guess what? People are stupid and content to remain ignorant, so we get all of these half-realized, locked down walled gardens that expire less than a year or two after purchase. /end rant
On one hand, I think it's a fantastic idea for tech companies to produce computers or computer-like devices where the OS and hardware are configured for specific purposes. However, nobody's really done it correctly. Roland refuse to release a proper MV with Mouse, keyboard, and monitor support because of the DAWless crowd; I don't know if Yamaha even care about synths anymore. Suggesting that one capitulate to apple and just get an ipad, or that music tech companies should focus more on the ipad as a platform is not going to make things easier for anybody but those already invested in that ecosystem. We either need a proper standalone music-making computer, or a regular, general-purpose computer that we can configure and maintain ourselves. The ipad is an incredibly niche solution, in spite of its form factor and touch screen, because of the price and because it is not "repair friendly". If I were a gigging musician, I'd rather have a device running my show that was easily opened up and repaired. I'd want to be able to spend some time on the bus, bar, or green room tinkering and troubleshooting than sending someone to get me a new ipad, spending all day activating the ipad, reinstalling all my other stuff, etc.
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