Missing NKM Libraries within KOMPLETE KONTROL Database after successful Folder Import

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B.Minor
B.Minor Member Posts: 180 Advisor
edited May 2023 in Komplete Kontrol

I have a bunch of NKI (Instrument) and NKM (Multi) 3rd party libraries (which are requiring the full KONTAKT 6 version) on my SSD, which I'd like to import into KOMPLETE KONTROL's database for quick and convenient access. Now, after browsing inside KK's "Files" structure to the proper folder, selecting and importing it (while setting related tags for the sound set accordingly) and pressing "OK", everything seems to go fine; at least there's no error message. However, after looking into the final DB content and tag list presented by KK, I noticed that only KONTAKT's "NKI" files have been imported properly, but not all "NKM" files which are also essential in order to make sense at all. As KONTAKT is managing and loading such "NKM" files flawlessly within its own database, I wonder why KOMPLETE KONTROL - which is just another layer on top of KONTAKT - seems to be refusing to handle "NKM" files properly. Is this a known bug, or did I miss something important? Is there anything I can do about that strange behavior in order to make things work as they should?

Thanks in advance for your help.

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  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 3,959 mod
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    Unfortunately KK has never supported multi instruments (or combination multis of instruments and FX) - this is a very longstanding FR going back to before it was even released. This is odd as it does have multiple audio outs, and as you know those can be used by creating multis in Kontakt, but you have to use Kontakt to manage them, KK doesn't seem to have a concept of 'multi' in its software vocabulary.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 3,959 mod
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    ‘any KK-supported Multi-Preset needs to be available in "NKSN" (snapshot) format, as it seems’

    ok that does make sense, kindof, snapshots were developed while KK was also in development and are supported by it to an extent (although there are also problems with file paths for snapshots in KK) while I think maybe NKM was an older Kontakt specific format

Answers

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 4,316 Expert
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    If you load Kontakt inside KK, can you then load the NKM from inside Kontakt’s browser?

  • B.Minor
    B.Minor Member Posts: 180 Advisor
    edited May 2023
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    No, unfortunately that doesn't work as well. If I load KONTAKT 6 FULL inside KK, go to "Edit Mode" in order to have access to KONTAKT's own file browser, then go to the related folder with my files, I can only see NKI libraries there (and subfolders), but not the actual NKM-specific ones I was looking for. That let's me assume that this is done on purpose by NI. It seems that they don't want anybody to load or to import KONTAKT NKM libraries into KK for whatever reason.

    Now, I thought that I'd be very clever by pre-saving the desired NKM libraries to KONTAKT's quick-load menu first, by running the standalone version of KONTAKT without KK. In fact, I created quick-load links to all of my NKM libraries inside the quick-load's "Multi" menu. And Bingo, the NKM files then really showed up inside the KONTAKT instance when opened up inside KK. I could even open these NKM libraries by double clicking on the related NKM quick-load links; the sounds also played fine inside the KK environment.

    But then reality caught up with me again:

    THERE IS NO WAY TO ACTIVELY "SAVE" OR TO "SAVE AS" IN ORDER TO LET ME STORE SUCH A KONTAKT NKM PRESET INSIDE KK! BOTH OPTIONS ARE SIMPLY GRAYED OUT!

    In other words, NI prevents users to manage NKM presets (and to tag their related DB entries) inside KK whenever KONTAKT NKM is the format they are based on. This is a huge step backwards! No way to call this KOMPLETE KONTROL anymore, as this is less functionality than ever provided before. Maybe they want to abandeon this NKM format in the future at all. However, this is really unacceptable for me, as this is making 20% of my existing libraries unusable within KK! I spent much money for that gear (an S61/MK2) just to find out that the functionality it's not what they said. I'm really upset now.

  • B.Minor
    B.Minor Member Posts: 180 Advisor
    edited May 2023
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    In the meantime I have tried several approaches to manage KONTAKT NKM presets within the KK environment, but unfortunately without any success. I still cannot believe that even 3rd party VST plugins can be freely loaded, edited and saved out as individual KK presets, but this doesn't seem to apply to NI's own "native" KONTAKT format, an NKM "Multi".

    As far as I'm concerned, a KONTAKT "Multi" is nothing else than a bunch of NKI files which have been saved out at once. So, is there any way to "decompose" such saved NKM libraries again into separate NKI files in order to be accepted by KK? Still it's not obvious why NKM shouldn't be a regular option (and a supported source format) for saving KK presets, as this would be representing a very strange case where NI is excluding their own standards from being actively used anymore.

    Can anybody please confirm this current situation and enlighten me a little bit on how to find a related workaround for that issue? For example, why can any DAW save a complete song with an included KK instance in it, having an ordinary NKM library loaded and tweaked accordingly, but KK itself cannot manage to save the same library setup as a "native" KK preset? Sorry, but I still don't get it...

    Thanks in advance for your contribution.

  • B.Minor
    B.Minor Member Posts: 180 Advisor
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    @Native Instruments Support:

    Any statement to this reported issue?

    I can't believe that I'm the only one having that problem with KK.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,678 Expert
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    Have you reported it thru to their support? Prob wont have feedback from them if you have only posted on the user forum.

  • B.Minor
    B.Minor Member Posts: 180 Advisor
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    No, not yet. But I guess that will be the only way to get an official statement. Thanks.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 3,959 mod
    Answer ✓
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    Unfortunately KK has never supported multi instruments (or combination multis of instruments and FX) - this is a very longstanding FR going back to before it was even released. This is odd as it does have multiple audio outs, and as you know those can be used by creating multis in Kontakt, but you have to use Kontakt to manage them, KK doesn't seem to have a concept of 'multi' in its software vocabulary.

  • B.Minor
    B.Minor Member Posts: 180 Advisor
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    Thanks for that valuable input. So my cards don't look very good to get that request managed with the result I would have been expecting.

    However, in the meantime I have opened a support ticket as JesterMgee suggested. I'd really like to hear NI's own excuse. Nevertheless, the fact that they won't support the full potential of their KONTAKT application within their own new KOMPLETE KONTROL environment - but they rather support VSTs there which are not even NKS-compatible - would be really ridiculous; at least from my personal point of view. But let's hope for the best; maybe it might be covered in a KK future update...

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 3,959 mod
    edited May 2023
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    Well from the perspective of multis they are not supported for third party VSTis either so the situation is the same, if not slightly better for Kontakt as you can at least load them in Kontakt within KK and it does support multi outs, it's just KK itself doesn't 'read/write' the file format.

  • B.Minor
    B.Minor Member Posts: 180 Advisor
    edited May 2023
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    But wait, I found something very interresting:

    I was skipping through my installed libraries on my SSD in order to find further "Multis". I spotted other "NKM" libraries which were officially distributed and licensed directly by NI; they were even made available via "Native Access" downloads. For example, ProjectSAM's "Free Orchestra" contains such "NKM" presets which are available in parallel to "NKI" libraries.

    Now, while these "NI-approved" KONTAKT Multi libraries behave exactly like any other "NKM" ones (they can be loaded within KK when using the full version of KONTAKT, but cannot be saved as ordinary KK presets), there are also KK-related Multi-presets available which are accessable via the KK database/file list!

    In other words, "Multis" ARE supported within KK, but in contrast to regular "NKM" libraries, any KK-supported Multi-Preset needs to be available in "NKSN" (snapshot) format, as it seems.

    Now, the only "missing link" for me is how to manage an "NKM batch re-save" to "NKSN" format in order to make KK load them accordingly.

    Now, the real showstopper might really be that - as you indicated above - NI won't allow their loyal users to re-save "NKM" multi-libraries in "NKSN" multi-library format ON THEIR OWN using KK, especially in case these libraries haven't been distributed directly by NI. As we can see, vendors ARE allowed to distribute their Multis in that format. But exactly this policy is not really fair from my perspective. After all, users like me have anyway purchased a full KONTAKT version (along with a full KOMPLETE Standard), already paying their tribute to NI and expecting to get full access to the built-in functionalities, e.g. using all KONTAKT features within KK without any restrictions. But no, it seems that it's quite the opposite, letting these users suffer from limitations which have been intentionally implemented, preventing NI customers to use their libraries in an acceptable way within KOMPLETE KONTROL. I guess NI hasn't carefully taken all disadvantages into account, making their customers unnecessarily angry. As mentioned before, any 3rd party plugin - and even coming from non-NKS library makers - has better chances to be implemented in a serious way in KK than NI's own library formats. That's really a shame. I'm really very disappointed.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia NKS User Library Mod Posts: 3,959 mod
    Answer ✓
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    ‘any KK-supported Multi-Preset needs to be available in "NKSN" (snapshot) format, as it seems’

    ok that does make sense, kindof, snapshots were developed while KK was also in development and are supported by it to an extent (although there are also problems with file paths for snapshots in KK) while I think maybe NKM was an older Kontakt specific format

  • B.Minor
    B.Minor Member Posts: 180 Advisor
    edited March 1
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    That was more or less my question about 10 months ago. At least I don't know how to achieve that goal; this feature has never made to KK; it's not even included in NI's latest KK3 update. But as I mentioned before, there seem to be ways to implement NKS based multis for "official NKS partners" only, like ProjectSAM.

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