Stems files in Traktor Pro 3

Demus
Demus Member Posts: 114 Advisor

Created a stems file with RipX, to compare how the file would play in the different DJ software. The file in RipX was created from a flac file 24bit 44.1 khz file. was converted to a stems 16bit 44.1 khz, that was the only out-put option I got. The file separation in Ripx was very good quality. The same quality as Virtual DJ 2023, 5 level of separation. Serato only read 4 level of separation combining the vocal and the hi-hat together and Traktor did the same only reading 4 level of separation combining the vocal and hi-hats. Traktor Pro 3 was equal in playback quality to Serato DJ but not as good as Virtual DJ. My guess is that Traktor Pro 3 implementation of stems will be about the same as Serato DJ. Rekordbox DJ was really horrible playing the same file. Let's see where the implementation of flexible beat grid will be compared to the other DJ software. Might be the deciding factor for me as far as my decision.

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Comments

  • Mutis
    Mutis Member Posts: 452 Pro

    I think you can configure how to the output stems are mixed in RipX so you can get an stem.mp4 with the vocal isolated from hit hat (that should be in the drums layer).

    I didn't try too much with RipX but since it ask for what kind of rip process at the beginning I understood it's totally doable. Did you researched far enough or just preliminary results?


    Thanks for sharing BTW

  • Demus
    Demus Member Posts: 114 Advisor

    Yes. I know you can configure how to the output stems are mixed in RipX so you can get an stem.mp4 with the vocal isolated from hit-hat (that should be in the drums layer).

    But like I said NI and Serato only can decode 4 levels of stem. Vocal, Melody, Bass, Drum. While RipX can encode 5 levels of stems the same with Virtual DJ 2023 and decode. Vocal, Instruments, Bass, Kick, HI hats. Let's see what happens when NI real time stems get implemented. I don't think that the level of separation will change to 5 levels.

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,147 Expert

    I do not think NI will change it to 5. NI HW supports 4, if they would increase to 5, new HW would be needed and old one (F1/S5/S8/D2) would not be able to handle it....

  • Tellmeaboutit123
    Tellmeaboutit123 Member Posts: 456 Guru

    Have you tried Nuo stems 2. It’s really good and designed with Traktor in mind. Sound wise is on par with serato I would say even getting close to virtual dj.

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 2,040 Expert

    Well…that’s a good reason for them to change it

    ”Hey…you need to buy this new hardware and you can’t use previous anymore”

    😂😂😂

  • Mutis
    Mutis Member Posts: 452 Pro

    But Serato doesn’t load stem.mp4 afaik… it does its own stems from the stereo file so if you feed it with stem.mp4 file it gets that and spleeter it.

    Otoh Traktor load RipX stem.mp4 as you coded it.

    I expect Traktor implementing iZotope spliting technology but also keeping the stem.mp4 container.

  • Demus
    Demus Member Posts: 114 Advisor

    Serato loads and plays stem file. The stem file also loads and plays in Rekordbox DJ version 6.7.

    @Tellmeaboutit123, I tried the demo for Nuo stems 2 didn't really work that good... maybe because it was the demo version.

    @Mutis..did some good enough research. RipX is a remixer's playground not really a good way to process stem files for DJing. It takes over 2 minutes to process one audio file to stems. Plus, export time for the saving of the stems file.

  • Mutis
    Mutis Member Posts: 452 Pro

    So Serato and Rekordbox open stem.mp4 file without applying its own analyzing/spleeting?

    RipX isn’t the best tool for barch processing but it has lots of functions that aren’t available elsewhere.

    For batch processing Nuo-stems is the king.

  • Scratch-E Con
    Scratch-E Con Member Posts: 67 Advisor

    What a coincidence, I bought RipX last month. It is awesome, the latest version can split up to 6 files. You can of course convert them back to four as you please using any DAC.

  • Demus
    Demus Member Posts: 114 Advisor

    Yes, for batch processing Nuo-stems is the king. But I never used it fully demo only. Correct if I am wrong and anyone from NI should be an expert on stem files, because stem file was originally created by them. Stem files contain the information for the separation of the stem file so why would it need to be reanalyzed.

  • Mutis
    Mutis Member Posts: 452 Pro
    edited April 23

    NI stem file is just a container with the stems you put in it. Nothing related to spleeter stems aside if you use an app like nuo-stems, RipX, let’s unmix (all of them exporting directly in the NI container file format if you want) or other which splits the audio and use the NI stem file creator.

    NI stem format is just 4+1 audio files inside a stem.mp4 format so apps like Serato/Vdj probably get the +1 (stereo master file) and use it to apply spleeter and get stems. Stems like we think in them but mot the same NI designed in their initial proposal which was more producer/DAW/label focused.


    If you feed Sdj/Vdj (maybe Vdj supports NI stems?) with NI stem file the quality of the output file will depend on that +1 master file.

    One thing is the container which only NI defined an (semi) open standard and other what cames after applying spleeter-based library apps.

    Nuo-stems, RipX and Let’s unmix convert stereo files into NI stem.mp4 sepparating drum/bass/accompaniament/vocals as “default”. RipX let’s you customize the layers into stem output as an extra.

    You need to get clear each concept to understand properly what’s really happening.

    I will try to clear a bit further in the next comment.

  • Mutis
    Mutis Member Posts: 452 Pro

    NI stem.mp4 file contains 4 stems +1 master file encapsulated. These 4 stems and that +1 master file were originally encapsulated using NI stem creator tool and designed to labels interested in release studio versions of popular songs or to users interested in create their own stem songs but nothing related to actual stem implementation by Serato and others based on spleeter AI technology of song part (drums/bass/accompaniament/vvocal).

    Then apps like Nuo-stem got that spleeter technology to split popular songs into thesr stems and also NI stem.mp4 container format to make that splitting technology available to Traktor until NI implements iZotope technology directly.


    Sdj and others get a stereo file and process it with spleeter but nothing related to NI stem.mp4 container… in fact Serato should have its own container but nothing useful outside Sdj.

    Vdj has stem creator implemented. I can link a video talking about it but not sure how official is it.


    So as I said if you feed SDj with NI stem.mp4 file it will (probably) get the +1 master file to apply the spleeting and get all the stems inside whatever container Serato uses internally.

  • Demus
    Demus Member Posts: 114 Advisor

    Ok, I now have a better understanding. As far as my test is concerned with stems separation. (Just the quality of the stems separation).

    1. Virtual DJ
    2. RipX
    3. Serato DJ and Nuo Stems
    4. iZotope RX10
    5. Rekordbox DJ
  • Sûlherokhh
    Sûlherokhh Member Posts: 721 Guru

    RipX is pretty good for cleaning up the seperated stems so each can be played on it's own without artifacts or missing pieces. I don't mind that it takes a bit.

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