What's your clips workflow?

adic27
adic27 Member Posts: 17 Sine
edited March 4 in Maschine

I just wanted to know if you guys are satisfied with the way clips work. I feel I have some learning to do but it seems obvious that some things don't really make sense with how clips work. Don't get me wrong, I love that they made it WAY easier to arrange than before, which was sooooo ridiculous, but it seems like when I think I figured something out I still screw something up and it takes forever to figure out how I did so. Maybe I'm missing something but just want to hear from you guys on how you felt about it.

One thing, among others, is not being able to copy and paste clips exactly where you want to paste them. You can choose to duplicate them but if you happen to duplicate them on top of some (with no other choice) it screws up what's behind it even if you move the duplicated clips. Like another guy in a different thread where I asked a question said, "it takes thinking ahead" meaning doing everything in exact order so you won't have to go back.. sorta.

So, what say you?

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Comments

  • Jo.
    Jo. Member Posts: 19 Sine
    edited February 26

    Hello,

    It is true that the addition of clips was good news. At that time, I absolutely wanted to do everything in the standalone version and simplify my workflow as much as possible, but I must say that it took me a while to use the clips completely, being very accustomed to work with the patterns, even for my transitions between scenes, there were workarounds possible.

    So, I just used the clips mainly as mute or to change things at particular places in my arrangement, but constantly switching between the pattern and clip view was really tiring in the long run. I ended up completely abandoning the patterns in the arrangement view. Since a clip replaces the pattern without overwriting it, it's actually very easy to first arrange in pattern as usual, then convert everything into clips for arrangement to create variations without touching the original pattern or create thousand of copies of it. But as you say, for exemple, impossible to copy / paste clips where you want and other limitations.

    I finally decided to stop arranging with clips in maschine because the MAS software annoyed me more and more. I recently took the path of midi/audio routing in Live, so I no longer have any use for clips (although I can sometimes use them to control maschine automations through an entire track in Live).

    Arrangement in Live is so much more practical and fun. I should have done this a long time ago.

  • Olihop
    Olihop France - MontpellierMember Posts: 87 Tri

    If it can help, for copy a clip from the controler, you must select the clip, press shift+pad11 (copy), then move the playhead (shift+encoder4d) to where you want to copy the clip and paste it by pressing shift+pad12 (paste).

    For my part, I use the clips mainly at the end of the scene to make transitions or introduce a new part.

    It also compensates for the fact that you cannot start, end or position a pattern where you want in a scene of the arranger. What I regret.

    In arranger mode, a pattern that repeats automatically does not make too much sense to me, on the contrary it is once the pattern is found in the arranger that we should be able to decide either to stretch it, or to double it or have it start and end where you want it in the scene. It would save us a lot of tinkering and back and forth.

    This way, clips and patterns would step on each other's toes less.

  • adic27
    adic27 Member Posts: 17 Sine

    I agree, and I might just use clips strictly once I get used to how everything works. So, are you saying you use Live as in Ableton? Do you use it alongside Maschine?

  • adic27
    adic27 Member Posts: 17 Sine

    Firstly, I get everything you're saying and, for the most part, understand how it "should" work. I think It's worth mentioning I use Maschine inside of FL Studio so I have to use FLs playhead or time marker.

    Secondly, I tried to copy and paste as you explained but it only pastes one clip, even if I select multiple clips at once. I don't know what made them design it like this but it makes no sense. Maybe I'm doing something wrong.

    Also, is there no way to do it from the Software??


    Thanks

  • adic27
    adic27 Member Posts: 17 Sine

    Figured it out! Selecting a clip, or clips, then holding "ALT" and drag allows you to copy what's selected. I gotta read the manual more HA!

  • ThomsonX
    ThomsonX Member Posts: 1 Noise

    Basically I have fun using Maschine as intended, then when I accidently create a clip I get pissed because they are ridiculous and completely kill any flow. Then do something else for the night.

  • tetsuneko
    tetsuneko Member Posts: 173 Saw
    edited March 19

    I've yet to find any use for clips myself. I only use patterns and scenes, and realtime record pattern/scene switching as MIDI events inside a DAW instead of relying on Maschine's arranger. It's the simplest and best way for me to work ATM, and most importantly allows me to "perform" my arrangement instead of programming it. Programming arrangements has always been a total buzzkill for me.

  • darkwaves
    darkwaves Member Posts: 76 Tri

    lol. Trigger warning bro.

    I generally use mouse/keyboard when using maschine on my computer. I use the pads for playing, but everything else is with mouse/keyboard. If I'm in a clip, it was probably not my intention. I find it very annoying.

    I generally work in song view when using the software. I've done that for years. Double click an empty area and I expect a new pattern. I realize all I have to do is click on the scene/section and then double click, but we're talking about an extra click that's fighting against years of muscle memory. Incredibly frustrating.

    It's probably too late for them to make changes, but I sure wish I could just disable clips completely. Maybe a preference to prefer clips or patterns and have both as options when you right click.

  • olafmol
    olafmol Member Posts: 44 Tri

    Imho clips are broken. It’s just not logical and breaks the flow, which is the most important USP of Maschine imho.

  • HammyHavoc
    HammyHavoc Liverpool, United KingdomMember Posts: 84 Tri

    Can you elaborate on how you feel they're broken? IMO, it was the best feature added to Maschine in years.

  • ozon
    ozon SwitzerlandMember Posts: 347 Saw
    edited March 20

    I like Clips. They allow me to do what I always considered missing with the Pattern workflow and drove me away from the Maschine sequencer concept: The ability to change a Pattern only once for a transition or break.

    Aside from not yet being used to the Clips workflow, the only thing that really annoys me is the unpredictable (and destructive) behavior when changing Scenes after Clips have been applied.

  • Cretin Dilettante
    Cretin Dilettante Member Posts: 21 Sine

    It's an inelegant solution to the often-levied criticism that Maschine cannot chain patterns, change time signature or smoothly allow the user to write parts in multiple timings within a single scene. The emperor is nude. If we could do all of the above, it's not likely that we'd even need a "clips" view. Before it was a more tightly integrated/openly advertised feature in version 11, Ableton Live allowed users to manually type in BPM & time information in the name slot of each scene, which would tell Live to automate those parameters according to what you named the scene. As of Version 11, time signature is a property that can be assigned to individual midi clips and tempo has always been able to be automated globally. There's also a fairly sophisticated way of chaining patterns within live called "follow actions" that allows Live to automatically arrange a track according to certain parameters. (After Chorus bass repeats 4 times, automatically switch to Chorus bass 2, which repeats 2 times, then have live determine semi-randomly whether to bring in Transition Bass 1 or Chorus Bass 3). Given that Maschine's already taken a fair amount of inspiration from Live's workflow, I think incorporating just a bit more of that influence would help a lot.

  • olafmol
    olafmol Member Posts: 44 Tri

    Sure :) In my mind, clips are a workaround to add "linear one/off" behaviour to Maschine's original pattern-oriented workflow. Like having some kind of unique audio of midi "pattern" that I want to have crossing the "edges" of patterns/sections. Or allowing me to make variations of certain parts of a song, without having to copy them into new patterns, so they don't affect the original pattern.

    In my mind, there are 2 big issues with this. One: clips seems to addressing people that don't seem to like or understand the "the pattern philosophy". But in my mind, this is the power of Maschine, and one of it's core USP's. Trying to do both, effectively not choosing sides and being opinionated, and ending up less than before. Jack of all trades, master of none.

    More importantly: the mental gymnastics i need to make to understand what i'm doing and what's going on when using clips is a testament for a flaky non-logical un-elegant implementation, something bolted on, instead of rethinking the entire "problem space".

    Or i'm just plain stupid, could also be the case LOL.

  • Olihop
    Olihop France - MontpellierMember Posts: 87 Tri

    I agree with you.

    I don't spit on clips that allow to go beyond some limits but its implementation is still too risky. Personally, I would have much preferred the possibility to chain patterns or at least to be able to freely move a pattern in a scene. This would have been the logical continuation of the evolution of the arranger in maschine.

  • jt maher
    jt maher Area S4 NvMember Posts: 6 Sine

    Clips aren't that hard to understand lol

    Converting everything to clips now is a must, if you want to arrange more quickly.

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