Kontrol VST 32 Out Configuration

xylemflo
xylemflo Member Posts: 7 Member
edited February 2023 in Komplete Kontrol

Greetings, I see that the Komplete Kontrol vst can be loaded with 32

outs. However, I cannot find any info on how to configure it to take advantage of multiple outputs. I am imagining that just like Kontakt, I can use a single instance across multiple outputs/tracks. Is there a manual/document/video on this that I am missing? Thanks

Best Answer

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,482 Expert
    Answer ✓

    No, that is not the question.


    KK is a multi-out wrapper since it can load plugins that may have multiple dedicated outputs. You set it up the same as you would any other plugin you have used if/when you need multi-out audio channels...

    Firstly, you would need a plugin that offers multiple audio outputs for some purpose (such as Battery where you can send different samples out to different channels for processing. Then in your DAW you add a new track (or sub channel) which you can receive the audio from Komplete Kontrol on that separate track.

    I don't really use Reaper much but in Ableton Live you create separate tracks and use the "Audio From" options to select the source and channel you want to receive:


    The above simply creates new audio channels to receive the audio on so this is useful for drum plugins that have a single MIDI input but can have multiple audio outputs for parallel processing of the drum kit.

    There is also this method which is used when you need to receive MIDI on different channels of the plugin and also get the audio back from a sub channel. This would be used for layered instruments like Kontakt, Omnisphere or UVI Falcon and sets each channel as both a MIDI input and audio output but the plugin is on only a single channel with all sub channels just sending midi and receiving audio, just like you would have when connecting multiple hardware synths together:

    Different plugins and different DAWs have different ways of achieving all this, hence why I haven't bothered to open Reaper and figure out how it works there, I have an idea on how it works but I am sure you can figure that out for yourself with some effort.

Answers

  • Gee_Flat
    Gee_Flat Member Posts: 906 Guru

    Are you looking for -> Preferences -> Audio -> Routings?

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,482 Expert
    Answer ✓

    No, that is not the question.


    KK is a multi-out wrapper since it can load plugins that may have multiple dedicated outputs. You set it up the same as you would any other plugin you have used if/when you need multi-out audio channels...

    Firstly, you would need a plugin that offers multiple audio outputs for some purpose (such as Battery where you can send different samples out to different channels for processing. Then in your DAW you add a new track (or sub channel) which you can receive the audio from Komplete Kontrol on that separate track.

    I don't really use Reaper much but in Ableton Live you create separate tracks and use the "Audio From" options to select the source and channel you want to receive:


    The above simply creates new audio channels to receive the audio on so this is useful for drum plugins that have a single MIDI input but can have multiple audio outputs for parallel processing of the drum kit.

    There is also this method which is used when you need to receive MIDI on different channels of the plugin and also get the audio back from a sub channel. This would be used for layered instruments like Kontakt, Omnisphere or UVI Falcon and sets each channel as both a MIDI input and audio output but the plugin is on only a single channel with all sub channels just sending midi and receiving audio, just like you would have when connecting multiple hardware synths together:

    Different plugins and different DAWs have different ways of achieving all this, hence why I haven't bothered to open Reaper and figure out how it works there, I have an idea on how it works but I am sure you can figure that out for yourself with some effort.

  • Gee_Flat
    Gee_Flat Member Posts: 906 Guru
    edited February 2023

    I already understand that as a concept. I don't know KK well enough, so I just threw that out there for the OP.

    But by your example, the 4 channels, although labelled Komplete, are just Kontakt's first 4 channels out if it was the plugin inside the KK wrapper.

    I can see this being of advantage if you have an S-series controller coupled with the KK software.

    But for me, I can't even see the point of assigning Abbey Road drums to separate channels in a DAW, unless I was possibly mixing surround. If the final destination is a stereo mix, then 1 stereo channel out is all I need. Everything for mixing and processing is already there in the instrument.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,482 Expert

    I already understand that as a concept. I don't know KK well enough, so I just threw that out there for the OP.

    While the intention may be good, without knowing the software it can potentially end up confusing things by just throwing out random answers without understanding the software/question, possibly best to leave it to those that do have more of an understanding.

    The OP is probably just curious since the plugin reports a multi-out capability but the main reason people want to utilise multi-outs (other than layered instruments) is for things such as drum plugins for example where you can assign different parts of the kit to different output channels to make it easier to apply processing to separate parts of the kit and use effects not available within the kit. Most obvious example would be to use a nice reverb on cymbals but not affect the snare or hats where you want different effects or to apply EQ to different kit elements separately. I use this all the time and have special kits designed already to use the multi-outs.

    Example again in Live:

    This is slightly more complex than what the OP asks but this is a multi-channel drum kit for Battery where each pad in the kit can be played from Push and is colour coded for every kit element. Because the kit has multiple sample pads for different kicks, hats, snares etc these are easily grouped and assigned to a dedicated output channel which now appear as mixable sub channels where effects can be applied OR channels can be sent to return tracks.

    Benefits are you have simple single assigned effects and no need to place multiple reverbs on every sound, each kit element runs through the same processing (so can easily apply the same EQ and filtering to all kicks at the same time for example) and it makes mixing and processing much faster especially when using multiple different samples of the same element through a project, downside is it can take some time to setup but can be saved as a full rack to recall later easily.

    So yeah, most people will be content to just do basic processing and mixing of drums without much additional thought but some folks (like me) who have a desire to have more fine control over everything will want to split a whole kit up into smaller mixable busses.

    I have a video I did years ago on setting all that up in Live for Push to get the pads showing different colours along with discrete channels that might show it in more detail. This can apply to ANY plugin that has multi-outs, not just KK (which technically just passes through the available channels from the loaded plugin).


  • Gee_Flat
    Gee_Flat Member Posts: 906 Guru
    edited February 2023

    Yeah ok, buddy 😀 I asked the OP if 'Routing' was what he might be looking for. Nothing beyond that. Because I'm curious.

    I was almost certain that you would come back with the argument that sending groups or instruments to separate channels would be beneficial for using reverbs etc.

    I hate reverb on most things and I only use it where it complements or creates an atmosphere in a special piece of music I'm working on. I've never used it with ARDrummer. Just the room mics.

    I hate reverb on vocals. I prefer in your face and intimate vocals where the listener hears every nuance as if I'm standing in the room with them. Up close and intimate. When it comes to intrumentation and effects, I'm an instrument track user and things are very simple.

    Anyway I hope the OP benefits from everything you posted. It's great. But the way I read it, he sounded like he just wanted to use it the same he does Kontakt...

    "I am imagining that just like Kontakt, I can use a single instance across multiple outputs/tracks"

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,482 Expert

    Yeah ok, buddy 😀 I asked the OP if 'Routing' was what he might be looking for. Nothing beyond that. Because I'm curious.

    Hey, no problem. Again, I was not trying to make a deal or offend, just suggesting that based on your own admission that you don't use KK nor have a controller that maybe it's an area that others with experience can better answer.

    Reverb was just one example, there are numerous other reasons people (not just me) want to access multi outs from plugins, that was simply one of the most common reasons. Parallel compression, separate gated effects, sidechain triggering, delays... Loads of useful ways to apply discrete processing to a single element in a larger instrument.

    Anyway, that's how it works.

  • xylemflo
    xylemflo Member Posts: 7 Member

    First of all, thanks for the responses. I should have added a bit more background to the question. I am already very familiar with how to use/route multiple outputs of midi/audio in my DAW, so I am not asking about routing. I had 3 objectives :

    1. Use a single instance of Kontrol and send instruments to different tracks, as I do with Kontakt using the outputs. It sounds like there is no such capability in Kontrol despite advertising 32 outs, and so it is just a wrapper. I get it.
    2. Exercise fine control over outputs to control processing, routing, etc as JesterMgee pointed out. It sounds like this is possible as long as I am using a Kontakt instrument within Kontrol. Essentially it is just using Kontakt within the Kontrol wrapper. I am not seeing much advantage here over just using Kontakt.
    3. See if Kontrol could be more of a 1-stop-shopping environment for instruments (NKS and non-NKS), loops, one-shots, so I could make it part of a new project template. I see the value of Kontrol for the NI ecosystem, and they should be commended for providing some integration for non-NI tools. However, for me, at this point, it still makes sense to use those other tools natively on their own tracks in a project.

    If I have missed the point from any of your responses, please let me know. Thanks

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,482 Expert

    Komplete Kontrol is only capable of loading a single instrument in a single instance. It can, of course, load Kontakt which you can then load multiple layers BUT the smarts of KK/NKS only work on the first channel, the multi-outs are really just available for the cases I mentioned where you need to have multiple channels out.

    Layering has been asked as an option but realistically, DAWs split the load of a project up by tracks so loading multiple instruments onto a single track will usually assign a single processor to that track which can end up maxing out things faster. It's considered more efficient to just use more tracks even tho it seems like it would be more efficient to have things bundled into a single track.

  • xylemflo
    xylemflo Member Posts: 7 Member

    Got it. In my case, I use a single instance of Kontakt on most projects with multiple outs. See template image. the template is only limited to 16 because that is typically all I need. I have tried it both ways, and it uses far less resources than 16 instances of Kontakt each with a single instrument. Knowing what I know now, I would personally be a fan of the features/functions of Kontrol just being merged into Kontakt at some point. Just my $0.02 Thanks again.


  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,482 Expert

    Yeah something like Kontakt might actually use less CPU on one track because it's a single instrument running sample libraries. I think the issue is when you load multiple VST instruments on a single track all the extra synthesis that needs processor can start causing an issue over loading them on separate tracks.

    Omnisphere is another example of where it can be more efficient to run 8 layers instead of 8 instances since most instruments are sample based with some synth. I've personally never had many projects with more than 16-20 tracks either so either way it's normally fine, just over the years hearing others that have huge sessions that find these issues I always keep it in mind.

  • Gee_Flat
    Gee_Flat Member Posts: 906 Guru
    edited February 2023

    I come from an era when our studio had a hunk of sheet metal mounted on a frame in a room and a half-track for slap-delay. Loops in the seventies and eighties were done with long pieces of tape and two reel to reels, inspired by Beatles, Eno, Fripp.

    Les Paul and Bob Moog were actual engineers.

    Thanks for the lessons. 😏

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