mk3 transport controls - send midi cc event?

indigomirage
indigomirage Member Posts: 8 Member
edited October 2024 in Maschine

Hi there -

Is there any decent known way to get the Mk3 to send a note, or a cc via when hitting the Play(Pause)/Stop/Restart buttons on the control surface when NOT in midi mode (and NOT in plugin mode)?

I'm aware that in midi mode, you can configure just about every button you wish, but I'm more concerned with normal Maschine mode.

This would be especially useful as a means to tell your DAW to start (with Maschine in clock receive mode), amongst other things.

Starting and stopping Maschine using the DAW is definitely functional, but it prevents use of the buttons on the device. (In midi mode, you can use them, but then you can't use Maschine's core features).

It's a real source of frustration and seems to me it's something that could be solved with a simple firmware update (and menu option in the application to indicate what messages, if any, to send).

Thoughts?

Best Answer

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 4,828 mod
    Answer ✓

    If you set host transport mode on, it simply sends always midi out for those five buttons, so you will loose record for maschine for example and the rest maschine goes with the DAW like if you press play in your daws gui. But now if I think about it, maschine has a switch pedal input to trigger record also, would be good to know if this is then also send out, without maschine then going into record mode or it sets record mode in maschine on, would be worth to try out. I don't know why native does not make the GUI freely resizable it's a real shame, there are many plugins that can do that, even maschine can as proofed here: https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/11786/nipatcher-tool-to-modify-maschine-mac

    It's not for windows but D-One has made a great work here for sure

Answers

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 4,828 mod
    edited October 2023

    Hello,

    do you maybe mean like this, works of course in other days too: https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/209582749-Setting-up-Your-MASCHINE-Controller-for-Host-Transport-Control-in-Logic-Pro

  • indigomirage
    indigomirage Member Posts: 8 Member
    edited October 2023

    HI there - I'm quite familiar with midi mode and how to configure the device with Controller editor (I use this extensively). However, this disables all the core 'Maschine' functionality, which is precisely what I want to use (except I want to pass a midi message (MCU/cc/note/sysex/whatever) for the play/pause/restart/pause events while in Maschine mode.

    In an ideal world, I'd have maschine in receive clock mode, and send a message to the master device (daw) on click on play/pause/stop/restart, catch it in the DAW, and start transport (sith maschine following).

    Another approach would be for maschine to actually send MTC data, rather than the very limited midi tempo data. (I can send an LTC signal on an audio channel, but the remote device takes a second or two to lock in.)

    Basically, maschine works well as a slave device, but you lose the ability to use the maschine transport buttons.

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 4,828 mod
    edited October 2023

    Then you did not understand the host mode for the transport buttons, once activated those buttons send midi to your DAW instead of controlling maschine. And all that also if you are not in midi mode! And you also don't need the mackie template, you can define the midi signal you want. You just have to select a midi template once with host transport mode enabled in order to work, again, also if you are not in midi mode.

  • indigomirage
    indigomirage Member Posts: 8 Member

    Hi there - I've read that over (and again now). Unless I'm grossly mistaken, Controller Editor is about defining templates for use when in Midi Mode (whether or not a template is configured for Host Transport mode). It also appears that Host Transport mode applies when Maschine is running as a plug, not as a standalone.

    Unfortunately, neither of these use cases apply for what I was asking (I really wish it did - and I remain prepared and willing to be very wrong!). I regularly use midi mode (when I'm not using the Maschine software) for transport control, and many other features to manipulate tracks, levels, mutes, record arm, etc...).

    When I'm running Maschine, it's generally the standalone app (not in the DAW). On the occasions that I want to run with the DAW, I get the clocks to line up by putting Maschine in receive clock mode (which disables the transport buttons), so that it syncs from the DAW. I've not had useable success having Maschine in Send Clock mode (unless I resort ugly to smpte LTC tricks, but that results in delays). My DAW (Reaper) unfortunately does not like to receive a clock from elsewhere unless it's MTC/LTC/SPP). (Quirks of Reaper are definitely NOT the fault of Maschine/NI, etc...)

    Having said all this, it appears that the only way to have Maschine Receive Clock on and still have functioning transport controls is to either i) run as a plugin in the DAW (with host transport ctl set via controller editor), or ii) run it in midi mode (which is a non-starter in my case as the whole point is to use the Maschine device with normal (non-midi mode) functionality.

    For use as a plugin, your advice is certainly useful and valid.

    I know what I'm trying to do may be an edge case, and that's ok. I'll keep playing with it to see if there's an answer/combination that works.

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 4,828 mod

    If you run both side by side and not within reaper, it will not work. you would have to use another controller or a midi app on your cellphone, or the keyboard. But why running maschine not inside of reaper?

  • indigomirage
    indigomirage Member Posts: 8 Member

    I appreciate the clarification - we're on the same page and you've confirmed my suspicion.

    The main reasons I run it standalone are ability to have a full screen UI, and that I sometimes want to decouple the looping work from the reaper timeline stuff (that's just quirky workflow stuff of course).

    I have one quick question - Host Transport Control is set per (midi mode) template in Controller editor. But when you're running in a plugin, and not in midi mode (so one can use the whole suite of maschine functionality) how does it know if it should be in Host Transport Mode? (I'll experiment more tomorrow - might be an obvious answer, but must rest my brain).

    I really do appreciate your patience with me.

  • Uwe303
    Uwe303 Moderator Posts: 4,828 mod
    Answer ✓

    If you set host transport mode on, it simply sends always midi out for those five buttons, so you will loose record for maschine for example and the rest maschine goes with the DAW like if you press play in your daws gui. But now if I think about it, maschine has a switch pedal input to trigger record also, would be good to know if this is then also send out, without maschine then going into record mode or it sets record mode in maschine on, would be worth to try out. I don't know why native does not make the GUI freely resizable it's a real shame, there are many plugins that can do that, even maschine can as proofed here: https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/11786/nipatcher-tool-to-modify-maschine-mac

    It's not for windows but D-One has made a great work here for sure

  • indigomirage
    indigomirage Member Posts: 8 Member

    Thanks - I think I can make plugin mode work for start/stop, and the resizability trick shows promise.

    Of course, now I realize the other reason I avoid plugin mode... there seems to be no good way to control where in the absolute timeline that patterns start. In scene mode, it'll always assume the start is the (absolute measure in the DAW) mod (length of pattern in measures). So if you're working on adding maschine stuff to a specific section of a larger piece, you have to add n offset measures to the beginning of the project. In arrange view, the timelines line up unless you loop the section you're interested in, in which case it behaves like the scene mode case (and if you turn loop on/off it trips up and changes behaviour depending on whether or not you hit the stop transport in the DAW to force a reset...!

    I think the best workaround is to use scene mode and add/remove buffer measures at the beginning of the DAW project... yikes.

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