Problems with DAW functions in Ableton Live with S61 MK2 keyboard

UdoBehm · 2022-07-20T19:04:59+00:00

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Good day,

is there anybody experiencing the same issues than I do: If I want to use my KK S61 MK2 keyboard within Ableton Live, sometimes I'm missing the daw functionalities that the keyboard should provide. Means that I can't access the Mixer and I can't transport control Live.

Have talked with the NI support about this several times but they do not got a clue what could be wrong.

Would like my keyboard to work just as normal as it sometimes does in Ableton Live.

Here are my system information (in German language) in case this helps:

1.txt

Thx for any help!

Udo

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Comments

JesterMgee

You should put your basic system info in your profile or signature to save us having to download and open a text file just to make things a little less annoying and 99% of what is in that file is not needed, just the OS and system specs is all.

Cannot say I have this issue, things work every time in Live for me but you would need a bit more info gathered on the problem.

So you say "sometimes" the DAW integration is not working. Is there any pattern to this such as it will not work when you first start Live but will if you do it a second time or you have to switch keyboard off/on to make it work?

Is it just the DAW integration that stops? If you open an NKS enabled plugin can you (manually) set the keyboard to display the smart controls?

Can you post a screenshot of your MIDI preferences (as I have a suspicion that is possibly your issue). Specifically what I would like to check is that:

Only 1 instance of the KompleteKontrol "Control Surface" script is loaded into one of the slots
The Komplete Kontrol DAW port is NOT set for any of the MIDI In/Out options (Track/Remote/Sync)

UdoBehm

Hi Jester,

thanks for your answer. I've had indeed checked the Track and Sync buttons for the Komplete Kontrol DAW port. Have unchecked them now. Do these two options really cause the DAW functions not to work correctly on the keyboard when they are checked? I think I remember a time when I had them unchecked but the DAW functions didn't work either. Will leave them unchecked now since I do not need them...

I don't have the Komplete Kontrol S MK2 control surface twice in the list. I'm using another surface that is using the regular Komplete Kontrol MIDI ports of the keyboard however that allows me to control some other functions in Live via the KK MIDI interface. I provide you the script here in case you may tell me whether this could interfere with the DAW functions of the keyboard. However if I disabled the KK2 Macros surface I still sometimes had the same issue of missing DAW functionality of the keyboard in Ableton Live.

UserConfiguration.txt

What I currently am thinking of what I could imagine what could be the cause is that Ableton has problems when loading a template that contains one KK (VST3) instance in track 1 - that because of this it doesn't load the DAW functions of the keyboard correctly. The problem always occurs randomly when I open Live. Sometimes it helps when I turn off and on the keyboard again. Sometimes it works after doing it twice. Sometimes I have to restart Live and sometimes even Windows in order I can use the DAW functions of the Mk2 keyboard. What was helping too was re-installing the Bomo MIDI driver that communicates with the keyboard or re-installing the keyboard driver in Windows. However I couldn't make it to solve this problem for all and ever.

NI was thinking that a driver in the Device Manager could be causing such a miscommunication and advised me to disable or uninstall all audio drivers that I do not need. This didn't solve the issue either however, as far as I've tried the suggestions of the NI support.

So I hope that disabling the Track and Remote buttons of the DAW port was (all the time) the reason why it did not work and it will work from now on... I doubt however that this will be the case since I think I remember that I disabled these options before and it still didn't work...

Thanks for your help though!

Udo

JesterMgee

Do these two options really cause the DAW functions not to work correctly on the keyboard when they are checked? I think I remember a time when I had them unchecked but the DAW functions didn't work either. Will leave them unchecked now since I do not need them...

Yes, they can. Because they are DAW control surface ports they are used at a higher level and in my testing, having these enabled for input can (at random) stop things working such as transport/control and auto switching between tracks.

Well if you ever have to resort to reinstalling things over and over to get something working, you have more of an issue.

What you should do is turn the thought into action. Do some controlled tests such as if you think it could be due to using VST3 KK then swap it out and load a VST2 version instead. If you think it could be because of the MIDI options set, take them out and try again for a bit. Also, just tor ule out the fact it isn't the second script you are using for the macro control (I use one too for blue hand control in MIDI mode), deselect that script and test.

Short answer is it should not be doing what you describe. I strongly suspect it was the MIDI settings you had since I have seen this countless times in peoples issues and replicated the same on my end and it's usually a spot where people get confused because 1 they don't really understand what the ports are actually doing and 2 the manual (tho does not say to select these options at all) does not actually say NOT to select these so people tend to just assume you select these as track/control since you are using them in tracks to control things.... But the signals are not standard MIDI so things get confused.

UdoBehm

Thanks for your answer. I've tried disabling the other surface before and start Live without KK being in track 1 (no matter if VST2 or VST3). Nothing helped so far. But I will test again and thank you for this answer. Maybe it helps...

Callum Taylor

I have this exact same problem. Literally the ONLY thing that solves this is for a full computer reboot and re-opening live. If my keyboard turns off, it will not re-connect to the user remote script in Live, I have to reboot. The KK integration will still work, it just stops communicating with ableton and wont follow the selected tracks, let me use the mixer button, etc.

I've also tried everything mentioned above, reinstalling drivers, trying different configurations, cables, ports, etc, the only thing that reliably fixes it is a reboot.

This is with a KK S61 mk2 with Ableton Live Suite 11.2

Oscar Morante

I'm having different issues. If I start a project from scratch everything seems to work fine. But if I close the project and load it again DAW integration doesn't work and all the KK tracks appear in the instances menu.

MusiKyle

I am also having issues with my S61 working with Ableton Live Standard 11.2. My problem is similar to Udo's in that my mixer button doesn't function (it does nothing when pressed) on projects saved after Ableton was updated to 11.2. Coincidentally I have an older project saved prior to my 11.2 update. When I open it, the mixer button functions as expected. However, as a test, I then saved that project as a new file (threw a V2 in the filename). Suddenly, what was a project where the mixer button worked became a project where the mixer button didn't work, simply by saving a file after the 11.2 update. The original project still operates just fine.

Sorry, all I have are similar symptoms and only a bit of additional detail to add, no solutions yet. Native Instruments and Ableton need to talk together and see what updates in Ableton 11.2 could have impacted the way the S61 (and all their hardware) operates and communicates, particularly in relation to the mixer button.

koukou

I have the same issue with Ableton in Win10. I have to turn off and on again a random number of times, before DAW functionality is enabled. NI should provide a solution!

Callum Taylor

Is native instruments ever going to acknowledge this problem?

i'm still experiencing it even after a full OS and ableton/library re-install. seriously turning me off their products

JesterMgee

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/47905#Comment_47905

Can you start by posting your midi preference screenshot since that is one area 90% of people seem to misconfigure and where most issues lie. Hard to find solutions to problems no one provides details for.

Callum Taylor

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/47993#Comment_47993

I've gone through the basic troubleshooting steps ad nauseam but it doesnt change anything. i've had this issue for over a year now and have tried literally everything, as i've posted previously in this very thread.

from all the debugging and trial and error i've done over the last year, the only thing that explains it is a problem at the software level preventing the keyboard from connecting to the DAW and the only thing that reliably fixes it is a full computer reboot so seems like something is not releasing when they keyboard is disconnected (as a result of, in my instances, random device reboots), but I have absolutely no idea why it gets "locked up" in the first place. There's no pattern. Some days it will be absolutely fine and will reconnect every time after turning the keyboard on/off, and others it will just fail to reconnect.

The keys still work, you can still manually select instances within KK in ableton via the instance button, and the rich LCD screen and encoders still work, but the mixer button greys out and does nothing when pressed, and the keyboard stops auto selecting the instance when changing selected track in ableton.

my IOs

1.png

2.png

3.png

my IOs with a different configuration that produces the same behaviour

1a.png

2a.png

3a.png

its not my IOs, or the OS, the cable, the USB port, or anything else. i have the exact same issue on a literal "fresh install of everything" computer

everything is up to date, i've installed the BOME midi driver. the only thing i can think it is, is the software service but the only way to reliably restart it is to reboot the whole computer

JesterMgee

its not my IOs, or the OS, the cable, the USB port, or anything else. i have the exact same issue on a literal "fresh install of everything" computer

Well, it has to be something man and just because you have an issue doesn't mean it is the product/software/bug, i've experienced no such issue like this on 2 machines here. I have Live 11 with Push, MCU and MK2 and it all works fine both navigation and control surface.

I am sure there are some things you have not yet tried since I do not see that you have done a basic test of just having the KK keyboard connected, or setting KK to be the first control surface device, or disabling all unrequired remote/output midi checks...

First thing I see from your screenshots is a lot of gear connected. While troubleshooting I would suggest disconnecting everything and clearing out all control surfaces with KK being the first one listed and doing some tests. You need to be able to easily replicate the problem and narrow down what the possible cause is. The simple fact we don't see hundreds of people with the same problem should be enough to realise this is likely not a product issue.

An issue I see a lot from people is when navigating tracks, it is not "auto selecting" the track and this is sometimes a conflict with Push or another control surface. When Push is placed in Session mode it stops "Pseudo Arming" of tracks which now stops KK from auto arming a selected track. This happens only when Push is in Session mode so switching back to note mode fixes that.

Could be that you are having some similar conflict, not all systems and setups will behave in the exact same manner so when having issues, dial back and test only specifically what is causing problems, take EVERYTHING else out.

If it doesn't work when just KK is connected then you can certainly narrow it down there but if it does appear to work, connect up one piece of gear at a time and test. Painful yes but sometimes required.

Elie Zedeck

Hey guys,

I'm not sure if this has properly been resolved, but I just got my S61 MK2 shipped to me a few days ago. I got my hands on the Live Lite 11.3.3. I had everything setup, MIXER working, Transport perfect! When I reloaded Live, MIXER worked, but then when I opened my last project, MIXER is gone! Transport is gone! I tried the Ableton Live Trial, same exact story.

I thought I was missing something, but I guess not. And came to this thread.

After some trials, I got mine working, and this method seems to fix it all the time.

----- TEMPORARY SOLUTION -----

Here's the steps:

Open your project ... MIXER will be disabled, however, if your project is using Komplete Kontrol plugin, it will actually make the PLUG-IN button light-up.
Go to your Ableton Live settings
Go to MIDI section ... there are 3 columns there, the "Control Surface", "Input" and "Output".
Under the "Control Surface", in the MIDI section, in the Komplete Kontrol entry, select and make sure you select "None"
Right after that, select again "Komplete Kontrol S Mk2"
That's it! Your MIXER and Transport will now work.

Hope it will be the same with you. I'm a software engineer, and this bug feels like an Ableton Live bug, not NI. They need to check the setting of the surface control after a project load.

96Nick

Hello Everybody!

I FOUND THE SOLUTION! I tried all of the above and nothing worked except this.

Open the task manager
Select "Services" on the menus
Scroll down to "NIHardwareService" and "NIHostIntegrationAgent"
In the status column, make sure both are listed as "Running"
If either of them are not on, right click and select "Start"
Restart computer (If you dont restart your computer afterwards, the Mixer still doesn't work)

Really hope this helps everyone out! :D

L'Homme Sourd

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/103538#Comment_103538

Thank you very much !

And you can add restart the process if it's running without your hardware actually working (it solved my issues, at least temporarily)

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