Anyone else notice pitch increases with louder volume.

Studiowaves
Studiowaves Member Posts: 216 Tri

Seems to be a brain thing, I can play a constant sine wave low note around 42 to 100 hz and turn up the volume. If I turn up the volume about 10 db it sounds like the pitch increases almost a half step. Pretty crazy but for me it's true, take it from an old piano tuner, my sense of pitch is well trained. Got a little time? try it and listen, it might just be me, but maybe not. Never thought about lowering the pitch based on the volume. May try that someday on a reaktor project.

Comments

  • Paule
    Paule BerlinMember Posts: 328 Saw

    If I use lower freqs the volume increases. IMHO that's normal in Reaktor

  • Studiowaves
    Studiowaves Member Posts: 216 Tri

    My my my.... That's not what I meant Paule. I'm saying I hear a subtle pitch change when the volume changes. Like if a loud tone around 100 hz fades away the perceived pitch goes down with the volume. Or if the volume ramps up I hear the pitch going up. I reality it's not, but I most definately do hear a change in pitch. It's nuts...

  • ANDREW221231
    ANDREW221231 Member Posts: 170 Saw

    can you post an ensemble demonstrating this?? im curious, i tried it out and can kinda see what you mean, but i'd describe it more as a timbral change, as a result of playing a sine tone loud enough to make stuff in my room start to buzz 🤣

  • Paule
    Paule BerlinMember Posts: 328 Saw
    edited February 19

    I hear a subtle pitch change when the volume changes.

    Please use an Event Smoother module just behind the volume knob. Default value is 100 ms but you can change it in the properties.

  • Studiowaves
    Studiowaves Member Posts: 216 Tri

    Try it with headphones, maybe that'll rattle your head. lol but here's a little tester that ramps the volume up and down over a 60 db range. Try with different pitches, seem this area of the dial is easily detectable. Don't go crazy lol. I hear a change though.


  • Studiowaves
    Studiowaves Member Posts: 216 Tri

    Hi Paule, I put up an ensemble to try. I'm not saying it's a problem with Reaktor, I'm curious if others perceive a pitch change. To me, the louder it gets, the more the pitch seems to increase. On very low tones like 40 hz, the pitch seems to change the most, almost a half step up, so a low E note sounds like an F. It's nuts I tell you. lol

  • Paule
    Paule BerlinMember Posts: 328 Saw

    Al, you know my monsters without a pure sound. So I like those pataphysical differences and don't bother if the is an E or an F in the sounds.

  • ANDREW221231
    ANDREW221231 Member Posts: 170 Saw

    ok, i tried it with headphones, and my official vote is that it is the same note. its less obvious the lower the frequency. maybe what you're hearing is some sideband from amplitude modulation from the volume ramp?


    ok actually i tried it again while humming a constant note along and it seemed like the pitch of the sine actually did go a bit sharp relative to the humming at full volume... (didn't you say the opposite, that it went flat? 🤔) but that was only with the headphone was covering both ears, it didn't seem to happen with one ear uncovered so that i could hear myself properly


    whatever this is, if it is indeed something, must be some kind of psycho-acoustic phenomenon

  • Studiowaves
    Studiowaves Member Posts: 216 Tri

    That's exactly how I perceive it. The pitch seems to increase with volume, especially on the really low tones like 40 hz. I don't need to hum something, I can just tell, especially when a chord fades out with envelope generators. I guess your central nervous system factors in the volume or something. Pretty crazy...

  • Studiowaves
    Studiowaves Member Posts: 216 Tri

    Ya, it's probably different with lots of harmonics, It's no big deal to me, I was curious if others detected it too. Just brought it up because it's a weird thing. Hope your making it thru the winter ok. Food prices are really going up here, probably same there.

  • Laureano Lopez
    Laureano Lopez Cordoba, ArgentinaMember Posts: 70 Tri

    It may be your ears. I'm allergic, so I have like permanent congestion, so my Eustachian tubes are not very functional. On some days, when there's a sudden change of atmospheric pressure, I pretty much lose the low end on the left side, and as I sweep down the tone gets sharper than it should be until I can't hear it anymore. It also changes with volume. I'm pretty sure it has nothing to do with the inner ear, so it seems like a pressure imbalance in the middle ear can also affect tone.

  • Studiowaves
    Studiowaves Member Posts: 216 Tri

    I was thinking something like that along the same lines. The brain is full of receptors connected to middle ear. That's how we are able to distinguish different pitches. So it seems entirely possible that louder volumes can induce a cross talk between the pitch sensors. BTW, a doctor once advised be to take these anti histamines like Zyrtec once a day. I've been doing that for several years and rarely have clogged up eustation tubes and the inner ear infections I use to get all the time. I didn't know that, so I get the mega pack of 300 of so and they are way way cheaper.

  • Studiowaves
    Studiowaves Member Posts: 216 Tri

    Listened to Shiver Fear a bit today. Pretty nice for a cold winter day.

  • Studiowaves
    Studiowaves Member Posts: 216 Tri

    Hi Laureano, I may need some help on this. I need a module that linearily swings between a square and a square root circuit. I was thinking of using a linear crossfade module with the square on one side and the square root on the other. It's one method keyboards use to send midi based on your key velocity. The square root keeps most of the velocities on the upper end and the square has a wide dynamic range. I was gonna try a linear crossfade but you may have some better ideas. Talk later, enjoy the weather, spring is almost 4 weeks away and I got a bad case of cabin fever. This is always the worse time of the year up hear in Missouri. See ya man, talk later.

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