Seriously, can't we make Kontakt bigger?
Comments
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I do not think a single one of us is “defending” NI in any way.
While we all would love to have the niceties of the Guitar Rig 6 UI rolled right into Kontakt in like 3 weeks - the reality of having to rewrite this old broken down app from scratch would be a daunting task for any developer.
You guys with sight issues and all the other complaints keep forgetting that Kontakt could very well be one of the most “dug in” VSTs to exist in the world of recording. Rewriting this from scratch is not something that will ever be easy considering it’s base consists of perhaps millions of users - all of which have an opinion on this or that. Not just those of us who can no longer see properly due to accelerating age.
And as of right now we have no idea what NI is planning to do. It’s very obvious to them that lots of users have issues. But that does not mean they will address it now or ever.
They could do analysis and determine it’s not work business wise for them cost wise to rewrite this thing. Maybe K7 is it and we have to deal with it. Maybe they will rewrite and we will be happy. Or not.
It’s great that folks are passionate about this but there comes a time to give the nonstop complaints a rest.
That is not going to get this thing rewritten any faster.
VP
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"I think what is unfair is to continue defending some NI behaviors. As we said about other arguments, ALL companies must face the problems and challenges NI has to face…the only difference is they don’t take as an excuse old programming or Apple changing the OS. ALL companies had to adapt to Apple, ALL companies had to change their framework to adapt to new technologies, ALL companies had programs made before this or that was a thing…but they worked on it and delivered way before NI did (or…will do, since some things are not here yet…and who knows if they would ever be, since they don’t communicate)."
Great way to put it. NI makes great gear and great virtual instruments too, but their GUIs seem written by first year students of programming, in 1995. It is indefensible in 2023 to not have a scalable GUI, and it wasn't in 2020 either. This is a large company, not a couple of guys.
It's like this "new" forum, which has the functionality of a 1990's forum. You can't set it to dark, so if I'm working in my DAW with a dark interface, and in Kontakt or Komplete Kontrol, with a dark interface as well, and I have a question to post here, I have to reach to the back of my monitor (yes, my monitor is that ridiculous), turn down the brightness, and then come to this forum, where it's 98% white. Not off white, not at least 80% white, no, pure white background with text.
And to make it worse, instead of having the same quoting functionality of any forum these days, meaning, click and drag your mouse pointer over the text you want to quote, which when you release the mouse button gives you a small popup that says Quote, and when you press it, it sends that selected text to the new message. But no, in this remarkable "new" forum, you have to either quote the whole post, or you can select the text, copy, paste in a new message, select it all again in the new message, click on the symbol that appears on the left, and select quote.
And then there's Komplete Kontrol, the mandatory software to be able to use the very expensive S88 MK2 keyboard, a program that could be much much better with just a few changes, but it's been out for years now, and still microscopic GUI with tiny blurry text. The S88 MK2 is like a top line BMW with a large screen running Windows 95 in 640x480 resolution. And it ruins the experience of using such a great keyboard with such great features.
It's not completely useless, but when you have to read lots of text when scrolling presets and the text is small and blurry, it ruins the experience and it gives you headaches. In fact, From the moment I started using it, I started having more headaches than normal, so now most times I say screw it, I'll just use Kontakt 7, at least the old interface has those very wide posters at a size that is very easy to tell which instrument it is, and you can switch easily to the new GUI which may not be perfect but it's very functional.
It's mind boggling why NI chose to set Komplete Kontrol as the only program to interface with their keyboards and not Kontakt as well, which is a well established program that has been around much longer than KK, and which many people use much more than KK. In fact, I'm not going to say who, but I've been told by more than one company that it's better to load their instruments in Kontakt than Komplete Kontrol.
Don't get me wrong, Komplete Kontrol has its place, like when you're looking for a random cool sound, and you just start rotating that knob on the keyboard, and they play right away, no wait. That's really cool. And it has a really nice filtering system, although the GUI for it is so poorly designed that you have to collapse two groups of buttons to see more than three results. That's beyond ridiculous. But it does help find certain sounds pretty well. But I usually open the standalone, look for that sound, and when I find it I go back to my DAW and load in Kontakt 7.
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Well, here it is, Easter Sunday, and I'm a firm believer that computers, software and the whole lure of it, are of the Devil.
But music software can be used for good and evil. I'm sure there are churches all over the world using Kontakt today to spread the word and share the love.
Kontakt exorcises the demons. It's miraculous.
Version 8 will be like a resurrection! 😇😀
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It's not being ignored, NI have made it very clear they are working on a fully resizable GUI and have been for some time now, starting with the work on the Kontakt 7 browser that we already have (which is also part of a longer term strategy starting with the newer fx). No amount of complaining is going to make that go any faster. As ED says this all takes time but to say they are ignoring the issue is totally off the mark.
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I’m quite sure if they are working now on these things (way too late) it’s because users are complaining about this from a long time.
Longer term strategies are ok, but I would like to see something before I die. At least to say with my last breath “I’m happy that our complaining has helped next generation to have better tools”. Although next generation will need something else, since technology has advanced and NI will be delivering what was needed 20 years before.
And I will repeat my concept once again: this all takes time…only for NI??? Other companies have done their duties: are they magic workers or is NI not so magic?
And YES, complaints DO make things go faster, when listened.
Am I off the mark? After almost 20 years of seeing users getting ignored, probably I am
The time to give complaints a rest is…when they are listened
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Unfortunately you are off the mark if you think Kontakt and it’s worldwide audience and usage compared to any other software from any other developer.
And complaints have never made anyone move faster. Can’t see how this crew would make any difference there.
If Kontakt is really holding you back from creating your art maybe it’s time to change it out and move on.
VP
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Ok. I won’t repeat me again. You have your opinion, I have mine.
My opinion doesn’t mean you have to suggest me to move on.
And if people trying to improve NI will move on as you suggest, the company will remain still without moving forward towards better products
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Funny thing is…in other threads you write exactly what we are saying here (except not recognizing your words are complaints too)…but…since probably you don’t like me too much, you attack me here saying I’m “off the mark” and I should “move on” and that my words are just complaints.
But…since I agree with your other posts, I’ll leave you a 👍🏼Like anyway 😉
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Yes it's easy to say that but the fact is they have been working on HDPI interfaces since the first Mod pack was released several years ago and then with Massive X and GR6 so that clearly was because they see the importance of it themselves as well as seeing that users see it as important. They are working on it right now for Kontakt and have been for some time. You are seeing the result of that strategy already in the form of the products I mentioned and the Kontakt browser which NI clearly stated when released was just the first step in its transformation to full HDPI. Of course they are also responding to user feedback, the two things are not mutually exclusive and I'm not saying complaining never changed anything (or that they are listening on everything because that isn't always the case) but just that they clearly are listening on this matter as they are doing it but it's a waste of effort repeatedly complaining about something NI have already said they are doing in the hope it will speed things up. If anything I want them to take the time they need to get it done right.
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THESE are fair points. It doesn’t stop users to complain about something they are late on, and they are managing probably too slowly.
But sometimes, I admit, I tend to “jump on the wagon” and, when I see someone complaining stating the truth of facts (they are late, they are inclined to try to sell us new products instead of fixing their mistakes, they find excuses other companies just face and work on,…) and someone else practically telling them they have to shut up and they don’t have the right to express their frustration, I repeat concepts that, as you say, have already been expressed, but since someone is still minimizing/denying them, maybe need a repeating. (And here could also come a little apology to @Vocalpoint 😉)
But there’s a reason for that, and it’s also MY BIGGEST REMARK to NI:
They have the bad habit to ignore their users (and I mean to not answer to them, not ignore requests).
If I were a company which situation, because of my own mistakes or slowness, is having a lot of my users repeatedly complaining from the same things from years and losing their trust in me, I would jump in IN EVERY SINGLE DISCUSSION, answering the worries and stating what I’m doing (or what I’m NOT doing), to reassure them or at least be honest on what to expect and what not.
They are a private company, they can do (or not do) WHATEVER THEY WANT. But honesty is important if you want to keep your users. At least this is my opinion
SAYING they want to be transparent is not enough to BE transparent
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LostInFoundation
I still need to challenge you on your biggest remark - as you (or I) or anyone has NO idea whatsoever what is going on internally at NI to address these issues with Kontakt or issues with any other NI product.
NI is a very large company with a very large product portfolio. Like any vendor in the recording software space - it is a fine line to balance old product (and its required maintenance) with shiny new products (and profit) to keep the overall line in shape.
You keep speaking of "slowness" and "mistakes" and "ignoring" so on - but none of these initiatives have published timelines nor does NI have to answer to us at any time. This is their thing and like it or not - a user perceived lack of something "happening" in a week or a month or a year does not mean they are ignoring us.
It most likely means they - like any solid vendor - are taking their time to do whatever (needs to be done) to Kontakt (and many other apps that sorely need work) to do it properly.
Final word on "answering worries" - this is a product support forum and I seriously doubt that ANY of this negative vibe stuff is being read or reviewed by anyone at NI that might be part of a (still unknown) Kontakt rewrite. Those guys and gals have work to do and do not need to jump in here and calm a bunch of users who do not understand how this all works.
Yes - there are a few NI reps that pop in here from time to time but everyone should understand that making MAJOR changes like rewriting one of the most used products in the recording space - will have a truckload of NDAs, secret marketing plans and a ton of other stuff none of us are aware of to ensure that any new release of Kontakt (if such a thing exists) is an EVENT rather than a quick "point" release.
NI is not going to tolerate or allow Matt (or anyone else with NI) to start divulging any sort of hard detail on this forum. Those are the rules of the road at any software company.
Overall - my take is that NI will deliver when they are good and ready to do so. When that is - is really not for me to worry about or to constantly complain in this forum about either.
VP
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@Vocalpoint Well…in facts you are not challenging my biggest remark at all…
“as you (or I) or anyone has NO idea whatsoever what is going on internally at NI”
”none of these initiatives have published timelines”
You are saying exactly what I am saying: they don’t communicate (even if then they say “we want to be transparent”)
And I said “They are a private company, they can do (or not do) WHATEVER THEY WANT”, which sounds exactly as yours “This is their thing”.
Once again, we are saying the same thing.
What we are different at, is the idea on how a company can continue to have its users trust and keep them in their boat.
You think that “ANY of this negative vibe stuff is (not) being read or reviewed by anyone at NI” is a good policy for a company.
I think exactly the opposite: a company that doesn’t care about their users perceptions of their operate has not a long life to live.
And, once again, you force me to repeat myself like a broken record: I’m not talking about “a user perceived lack of something "happening", but about a lack of communication. And also: “Those guys and gals have work to do”…like ALL other guys and gals from other companies (even smaller ones with less “guys and gals”…with the difference that they DID the work).
So…very easily: if less “guys and gals” from other companies do the job faster…maybe the other company is better.
Now we know each other opinion, useless to continue on the argument. Specially if you make me repeat the same things over and over again, ignoring what I already wrote and pretending I was saying something else. And specially if in other threads you say similar things as the ones you are refuting here. Maybe just for the love of dialectic. I’d rather spend my time helping other users
Peace out
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LIT
I am not pretending you said something else - I know exactly what you want and what the angle is - you can continue to beat your dead horse on comms in here - but it will never happen.
I also clearly know that you are fixated on this company "caring" about us in a very specific way. NI does not need to report to me (or you). Nor do they need to "check in" with us, care about our perceptions or even gain our trust. They either have our trust or they don't. I trust NI - but don't need a reminder, ongoing gentle communication or to be patted gently on the forehead with the reassurance that everything is going to be alright.
FWIW - I could care less what NI thinks I need, what their policies are or even if I am happy about a certain product. This goes for every company I choose to spend money with.
Only I can determine if I am happy.
But the best part about a free market - is you and I can choose whatever we want to use at any time. If I am not happy with a product - I speak with my wallet - not by firing up some complaint crusade on a "support" forum hoping for a different outcome day after day.
To close (for good this time) - clearly you are settled right into the NI "boat" or you wouldn't be here.
I just think this topic has sailed.
Continued success.
VP
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You’re right.
Peace out
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But the best part about a free market - is you and I can choose whatever we want to use at any time. If I am not happy with a product - I speak with my wallet - not by firing up some complaint crusade on a "support" forum hoping for a different outcome day after day.
Nothing wrong with a complaint crusade every week or two. When people don't complain, companies don't feel any pressure to do anything. Complaining is good for progress, as long as you provide ideas on how to improve what has a poor design.
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