Is KK3 Prime Time Ready yet?

I got my MK3 in January and have had no instabilities I couldn't easily fix on it or with KK3 on my Windows 10 Ableton 11 setup. But I'm fully configured with all of the most current versions of KK, Kontakt and Native Instruments.

The underlying VST architecture has changed with the MK3 and the updated KK, Kontakt and Native Instruments directly support those. The MK3 will still work with older VSTs, but not the reverse with the MK2 since it doesn't incorporate the capability for them. Again, you could still work with the older plugins in your MK3 based DAW project, but you may have to use an older version of Kontakt to get them loaded.

Most NKS compatible plugins that are either older or aren't directly licensed as NKS plugins such as those from 8DIO, Spitfire or Impact Soundworks will still work in the new KK or Kontakt if they're just loaded as .nki instrument files from the file system.

There are plenty of issues I see about the place, especially if you are a Logic user where there seems to be a major GUI problem. I've seen others having some navigation issues/crashing with Cubase but can't really comment on that but issues are still being raised rather constantly.

For me, the more pressing problems are the downgrade in browsing capability, the slower navigation speed, the truncated preset names, the increased need to click on things rather than have info displayed conveniently, the reduction of useful info on-screen (no way to see presets and the GUI of the plugin anymore) and the loss of sub banks which is still not even slightly hinted from NI as being an "issue" or that it is being addressed making me think they simply dropped it for user libraries.

From my tests and comparisons of the workflow in both applications, it is IMHO that KK V3 is not as efficient in use as KK V2 and maybe not everyone will agree, some have a loyal following or simply don't notice certain things, but KK V2 gets the job done with half as much fuss and clicks and a much faster workflow if you can deal with the shortcomings and more simple (but snappier) interface. Sadly KK V2 has a major issue which they never addressed where in Ableton Live half of all plugins do not show a GUI which would be the ONLY reason I would ever upgrade.

It's also been pretty clear that focus for KK V3 is on adding new features for the MK3 (or adding in lost function from V2 still….) and not addressing problems or requests for anything suggested that affects anyone else that is not using an MK3 so clearly it is for new users, not existing users. We still do not see accessibility, DnD of files or even the ability to delete NKS files from the browser, all basic function that was in KK V1 10 years ago so there is still basic catch-up work to do!

In regards to reverting back to KK V2, if you use the V3 version of KK in a project you likely will NOT be able to roll back to KK V2 so this will be the deciding factor if you actually update. If I were you I would make (as you already should be anyway) a fork/version of any projects you have saving a new version for the V3 of KK just in case you decide you have to roll back. Personally, unless you really have a need I would resist the temptation to update for some time yet. Bug fixes are rolling out super slow and seems new releases with new features are causing more issues for people. Search the forums here first, you will see 90% of the posts from the last 2 months are mostly related to issues and problems of some kind rather than the usual general questions.

Just for kicks, let's have a look at what 1 year of updates for KK looks like.

TBH, that is not a great deal of fixes/updates for a 12 month period as I would think a large round of fixes would have been done not long after release

3.3.1 - 2024-08-02
FIXED Issue that caused connection issues for some Kontrol A, M and SMK2 keyboards.
3.3 - 2024-08-01
ADDED Support for latest version of Kontrol S MK3 OS 1.7
ADDED Quit button for macOS standalone application
ADDED Komplete Kontrol now supports parameter ID remapping as defined in VST3 SDK
3.2.1 - 2024-03-25
FIXED Issue causing an erroneous disconnection error message to display in Studio One when used with Kontrol S MK3
FIXED Issue causing no user interface to display for certain VST3 plug-ins in Ableton Live (Please update to the latest version of any affected plug-ins, and also perform a plug-in rescan in order to properly evaluate this fix)
3.2.0 - 2024-03-05
ADDED Sonoma Compatibility
ADDED VST3 Toggle parameters with “isBypass” flag set show up as power buttons on Kontrol MK3
ADDED Publishing of unmapped plugin parameters for automation
FIXED KK PluginEditor has wrong position after moving to different screen
FIXED Lightguide unexpectedly resets when loading presets from NKS partner plugins
FIXED In LOGIC, the KPI view is drawn on top of rest of KK UI when scrolling
FIXED HiDPI issues on Windows in the Plug-in view when moving KK to different screen
FIXED Cubase Flicker And Crash When Focusing On Another App and Back Again
FIXED Enter search text not responding when browser is resized in Logic
3.1.2 - 2024-02-13
FIXED An issue causing a crash in Cubase when showing/hiding user interface(s)
3.1.1 - 2024-01-29
FIXED An issue causing an empty black window in Logic Pro
FIXED An intermittent crash when showing or hiding the user interface on Windows 10 and 11
3.1.0 - 2023-12-18
ADDED The Komplete Kontrol browser can now be resized
ADDED The design of the MIDI learn parameter menu has been updated to match the rest of the application
ADDED The icon of the plugin scanner has been updated to the latest version
FIXED An issue where the Decay parameter of the Sampler was falsely stated as Demo
FIXED An issue that lead to delayed response when adjusting parameter knobs for some Arturia plugins
FIXED An issue that lead to empty lines showing in the MIDI-learn parameter menu
FIXED An issue that lead to NKS2 resources not being identified correctly on case sensitive file systems
FIXED A bug on Windows that resulted in a white bar appearing when the menu is opened
3.0.3 - 2023-11-21
FIXED NKS2 plug-ins made with JUCE are not detected as NKS2 plug-ins
3.0.2 - 2023-11-03
FIXED Some users experiencing CPU spikes when using Komplete Kontrol in large DAW projects without having the Kontrol Mk 3 NIHardwareConnectionService installed
FIXED A bug that led to more RAM being used than required, affecting users with a large amount of Komplete Kontrol instances in a DAW project
FIXED The Komplete Kontrol Sampler and Audio module parameters jumping values when being selected from Kontrol Mk3 keyboards
FIXED Unable to name sections in Native Map when users created NKS1 user presets
FIXED One-shot and Loops not appearing in the correct section of the browser
3.0.1 - 2023-10-26
FIXED Komplete Kontrol 2 VST2 not loading in DAW projects after installing Komplete Kontrol 3
FIXED Lightguide not working for some VST2 NKS1 plug-ins

Cont….

Bugfixes

Live Bugfixes

• The Scale Mode toggle in the Control Bar now has an outlined focus frame when it is focused using keyboard navigation.
• Fixed an issue that could cause Meld’s limiter to distort.
• The Filter On/Off toggle in the Corpus effect no longer displays incorrect text.
• Made the following minor adjustments to Roar’s UI:
  • Correct background colors are now used for the breakout view meters.
  • The filter types labels now use all capital letters.
• In Session View, when hovering above the chain volume sliders in an expanded chain mixer, the cursor is changed to a double-arrow to indicate that the volume section can be resized by dragging up or down.
• Accessibility: Improved screen reader announcements for note velocity.
• The UI panel in the Tuning section now uses the correct color.
• If the Show Scroll Bars preference is set to When Scrolling, scrollbars will now be shown when scrolling occurs while dragging and dropping content.
• Accessibility: Fixed a bug where changing the label section in the browser using object navigation from a screen reader wouldn’t update the content list.
• Fixed an issue in Roar where animated UI widgets such as the shaper curve or filter curve would flicker at large buffer sizes.
• It is no longer possible to tag factory Packs via the Tags Editor.
• Fixed an issue where, depending on the total number of samples, performing with Round Robin in the Other mode would seemingly skip a sample.
• Fixed a bug where the expanded view was missing a focus outline even when it was the active view.
• Fixed a couple of small issues in Meld:
  • The Engine A/B Volume parameter can now be mapped to macros as normal.
  • The Oscillator Type list now wraps around when using the Previous and Next buttons.
• When entering the name of a non-existent tag while searching for tags with the # symbol, a warning message is now displayed informing the user that a tag of that name does not exist. If the user presses Return at this point the search input will not be saved as a tag but remain in the search field as a plain text.
• When applying a note transformation via a MIDI Tool that produces no visible change (such as quantizing a note that is already on the grid), a step is now generated in the undo history.
• When running a similarity search from within an existing search, the browser will now scroll back to the top of the list of results instead of remaining at the position of the previous search.
• Fixed a bug that prevented audio tracks over 2 GB from being frozen or consolidated.
• Accessibility: Fixed an incorrect accessible name on the audio editor timeline in Clip View. Also cleaned up excess speech when navigating the audio editor.
• Fixed an issue where adding a tagged item to the User Library or Collections would not display the associated tag in those locations until Live was restarted.
• Fixed a bug in the Arrangement View mixer where double-clicking on a device in the browser to load it onto a selected Rack chain would insert the device after the Rack itself instead of the selected chain.
• Fixed some UI layout issues in Live’s Settings that caused some translated text to be cut off.
• Fixed a bug in Plug-Ins Settings that caused Live to scan for plug-ins even after canceling the folder chooser that opens after enabling the “Use VST2 Plug-In Custom Folder" or "Use VST3 Plug-In Custom Folder" option.
• Fixed a bug where built-in devices that were saved to the Collections label in Live 11 would be shown as unloadable folders when displayed in Live 12.
• Fixed a crash that occurred after dropping a sample onto a selected Drum Rack Pad that already contained an instrument.
• Fixed two small bugs in the Roar device:
  • Values for the Blend parameter can now be set and adjusted using arrow keys.
  • The Noise modulator no longer resets to 0 when the device is reactivated.
• Fixed a crash that occurred when simultaneously selecting time or tracks in the Arrangement View while moving through tracks in the Arrangement mixer.
• Fixed a bug where the oscillator transpose parameters on Push didn't have an effect when Meld was following the clip scale.
• Fixed an issue that prevented cropped or reversed samples from being swapped out when using the Swap to Next/Previous Similar Sample buttons in Simpler.
• Accessibility: The status of playing clips in Session View (e.g., playing, triggered, stopped) is now available via screen reader announcements.
• When using a second window, the Clip View’s height will no longer reset after selecting an empty clip.
• Accessibility: Screen reader announcements for track names now include their status, e.g., armed, soloed or frozen.
• Roar now uses the correct UI colors when it is a part of an inactive group.
• The browser now displays the message “No results” or “No content” more reliably.
• Reduced the gap between Preference Page Chooser rows.
• The CC Control MIDI effect is now available in all Live editions.
• Accessibility: Added the following fixes:
  • Fixed a bug that caused some sliders to be inaccessible.
  • Fixed an issue that caused some sliders to be excluded from the "Speak Min and Max Values for Sliders" accessibility option.
  • Fixed a bug which caused some hidden controls to take screen reader focus.
• Missing separator lines in the Audio and Link, Tempo & MIDI Settings pages have been re-added.
• In the Connect MIDI Tool, the correct Info View description is now shown for the Spread control when hovering over the space surrounding the control.
• In the MIDI Note Editor, the time selection is now updated when inverting the note selection.
• Accessibility: Fixed the following issues:
  • The controls in a device’s expanded view are now wrapped in a group.
  • Fixed a bug which caused some buttons to not have a name.
• Fixed a bug where resizing the Arrangement mixer in a second window while the Clip and Device Views were expanded caused the second window to briefly and erratically change in height.
• When quantizing note ends, if the nearest quantization point is over or before the note start, the note will now be quantized to the next quantization point. This prevents invalid note lengths.
• Removed an internal-use parameter mistakenly displayed in envelope choosers for Analog, Electric, Collision, and Tension.
• The Similar Sample Swap controls are now hidden in nested Drum Racks (i.e., a Drum Rack within a drum pad).
• Fixed an issue where a multiple clip selection would start in a different clip slot than expected.
• Fixed an issue that caused name fields in the CC Control device parameters, Rack macros, and Drum pads to be displayed slightly off-center.
• When clicking on a slot or scene in the Session View while the mixer in the Arrangement View was visible in another window, Live would scroll the Session View erratically and potentially start to drag content, leading to things like unwanted reordering of scenes or moving of clips. This behavior is now fixed.
• The rows in the MIDI Input section of the Link, Tempo & MIDI Settings are now aligned correctly.
• Corrected the height of the bottom margin of a second window.
• Fixed an issue that cause saved User Labels to display no results if the custom tag that was used to generate the contents within the label was renamed.
• Fixed an issue on Windows that could cause Live to sporadically crash when exporting video.
• Fixed a bug where the mixer volume section would disappear and it would be impossible to resize the mixer when the Live window was made smaller.
• Fixed a bug that prevented the [E] key actions (e.g., note splitting) from working in the MIDI Note Editor when in Live’s second window.
• The device insert marker in Rack devices now uses the background color of the divider line between devices.
• Fixed a bug where using Undo on moving warp markers would undo the movement in very small increments, requiring a lot of undo steps to get back to the previous state.
• Fixed a crash that occurred due to invalid note lengths in the Arpeggiate MIDI Tool.
• CC 119 is now part of the list of available CC Messages in CC Control.
• In the Phaser-Flanger device, the color of the separator lines between different UI elements is now more visible in dark themes.
• Fixed an issue that occurred when using the Stacks MIDI Tool with a Drum Rack, where the Chord Root parameter would correctly refer to drum pads on the first chord's root pitch parameter, but would use note names instead after adding a new chord.
• Fixed an issue with multi-clip editing where selected notes in non-focused clips would remain selected when interacting with the Velocity or Chance editors, even though those editors don’t show notes in non-focused clips.
• Fixed a bug that prevented users from deleting automation breakpoints using the Delete command in the context menu.
• Fixed a bug where extending the note selection with the shortcut [OPT][Shift] + down arrow key would not work correctly when two notes with the same pitch were selected.
• Fixed an issue where the device expanded view would reopen after dragging it closed.
• Accessibility: When using the Stacks MIDI Tool, the C# note on the Root Pitch dial is now announced as “C sharp” (previously the “sharp” was omitted).
• Fixed an issue with spacing below the transport bar becoming too large when resizing the Clip View or device expanded view all the way to the top.
• Accessibility: In MIDI Tools, the key names in pitch controls are now announced using the note name along with their corresponding spelling preferences (i.e., sharp, flat) and tuning options.
• Fixed a UI issue that occurred when duplicating a device with an expanded breakout view.
• Fixed a bug that could cause the Indexer to freeze while analyzing certain MP3 files on Windows.
• Folder names containing the | character can once again be used in the browser.
• On Windows, fixed an issue where the Status Bar would get cut off when the Live window was made smaller.
• Fixed a few issues in the Recombine MIDI Tool:
  • The Rotate display doesn’t silently catch focus anymore, the focus goes to the Rotation Steps parameter.
  • If the number of rotate steps exceeds the maximum available, the selected bar is centered and is not displayed wider than usual.
  • After making a time selection, the bars in the Rotate display update correctly.
  • Fixed the software text for the Shuffle parameter.
• Fixed a bug in the Arpeggiate MIDI Tool where generated notes would sometimes start at the edge of the input time range, causing generated notes to fall outside of the range.
• When selecting a new lane to add from the lane selector in the MIDI Note Editor, the newly selected lane becomes the active lane and the controls at the bottom of the Editor are updated accordingly.
• Updated the UI color of the Seed, Time Warp and Recombine MIDI Tools when the panels are deactivated.
• Fixed an issue where Live could be installed on Windows computers that did not meet in the minimum system requirements, but would not start when the program was launched. Now, it is no longer possible to install the program at all if the system requirements are not met.
• A grid settings chooser is no longer displayed in the header in unwarped audio clips.
• Fixed some small issues when using the Add Interval option with Drum Racks or sampled instruments:
  • When not all key tracks are in use, Add Interval no longer generates notes on unused/invisible tracks.
  • The Interval parameter no longer shows a unit, e.g., “st” or “sd.”
• Fixed an issue where the text in Live’s Settings would be cut off in some languages.
• Fixed an issue that caused vertical scrolling to move too fast when adjusting values in the MIDI Note Editor’s MPE and Envelopes view modes.
• When using the Fold mode in the MIDI Note Editor, the Seed, Shape and Rhythm MIDI Tools will no longer automatically shrink key tracks by hiding unused tracks.
• Fixed a performance regression that occurred when resizing tracks in the Session View with Sets containing hundreds of scenes.
• Accessibility: Fixed a bug where toggling a checkable menu entry would incorrectly announce the new checked or unchecked state of the menu entry.
• Fixed an issue on Windows where the title bar of Live’s window would be cut off when launching the program with a window size larger than the available screen size (for example, if the display scale setting was changed on Windows).
• Fixed an issue where the Info View descriptions for parameters in the Euclidean and Velocity Shaper Generators were duplicated or missing in some cases.
• Fixed an issue where the “Follow System" option for the "Show Scroll Bars" preference in Display & Input Settings was ignored when starting Live for the first time.
• Fixed a crash that occurred when redoing the action of moving a group track that contains an Instrument Rack device.
• The Randomize Velocity option now works as expected again.
• Fixed the following keyboard input issues: 
  • Typing a space as the first character no longer enters edit mode on enumeration value sliders and doesn't block the global play/stop command. 
  • Typing a value that is outside of the available choices now correctly has no effect. Previously, the invalid value would be stuck in the edit field.
• Fixed a crash that would sometimes occur when moving tracks with the keyboard using the [CTRL] (Win) / [CMD] (Mac) key with arrow keys.
• Accessibility: Fixed a bug that caused Live to lose focus in the Settings dialog.
• The Pitch effect will now always appear the same width regardless of whether it is locked to a control surface (i.e., regardless of whether the hand icon is showing in the title bar).
• Fixed a bug where a Similarity Search could not be triggered using the View menu or the context menu in the browser when the file has not been analyzed in the background.
• Fixed a bug that caused slowed installation times when replacing an existing installation on Windows.
• Fixed a visual issue where text would be cut off when renaming Arrangement locators.
• In the Max for Live API, the performance when calling API functions with large dictionaries as inputs (e.g. apply_note_modifications) has been greatly improved.
• Fixed a crash that occurred when moving a group track and then undoing that action in certain scenarios.
• Fixed a crash that occurred when dropping a file into the File Manager when replacing missing files in a Set.
• Accessibility: Fixed an issue that prevented the Live 12 Trial from being authorized when using certain screen readers on Windows.
• Fixed a crash that occurred when replacing a missing sample in Simpler via the File Manager.
• Fixed a visual issue that caused the initial layout of the Main track to be misaligned when the “Show Scroll Bars” option was set to “When Scrolling”.
• Fixed a crash that could occur when quitting Live.
• Updated the bundled Max version to 8.6.2 hot fix release 3191a3e. This fixes the following issue: Live no longer requires admin credentials when launched from a secondary user account.
• Fixed an alignment issue in Live’s Audio Settings when the warning dialog about configuring inputs/outputs was shown.
• Fixed a bug in the Stacks MIDI Tool that caused the Root parameter to behave erratically when using Drum Racks. Now the parameter stops at the last pad in the Rack as expected.
• Fixed a crash that occurred when resizing multiple clips on different tracks, undoing the action, and then resizing again.
• Fixed a crash that could occur when resizing the video window on Windows.
• Fixed a bug where chain lists in Racks would become slightly misaligned when switching the Show Scroll Bars option between When Scrolling and Always.
• Fixed a crash that would occur in rare cases when audio with infinite volume was routed into Live.
• Fixed the behavior of commands when the content menu is opened via the computer keyboard in audio and MIDI clips so that auto-warp commands, such as Set 1.1.1 Here or Warp From Here, now use the current position of the insert marker.
• Fixed a bug where some Live Clips based on locked Racks, such as Grain Slap 136 bpm.alc, would fail to open in certain Live editions.
• Fixed a bug that prevented options in the context menu of audio and MIDI clips from working as expected when the menu was opened using the computer keyboard and a clip start marker or the loop brace was selected.
• Fixed a bug where navigation with the arrow keys from a scene to the clip slots was not possible if return tracks were folded. Now the selection is moved to the last track before any hidden return tracks.
• Fixed a bug that caused the Crossfader horizontal slider to be misaligned if the Main track was wider than the default size. Fixed a bug where a configured plug-in parameter value would become locked when clicking in the middle of the parameter’s horizontal slider.

Max for Live Device Bugfixes

• Max for Live patches located in nested subfolders in the User Library will now correctly be listed in the Max for Live label as well.
• Unmapping a Max modulation source from a Max for Live parameter now clears the modulation value.
• Fixed a bug where the GUI of a Max MIDI Tool would remain accessible and editable even when the selected track was frozen.
• Fixed visual glitches that occurred after clicking away from a Max for Live device or MIDI Tool, such as unnecessary triggering of note selection or drag behaviors in the MIDI Note Editor.
• Fixed a bug that affected the load time of Live Sets containing certain Max for Live devices.
• Fixed an issue where renaming a Max for Live file in the User Library made it impossible to load the same file from the Max for Live label.
• Fixed the following issue with Max for Live devices:
  • Modulators can now only have one Map button active across all devices.
  • In DS devices voices are now never muted before the end of envelopes.
  • In Note Echo, fixed a bug where C-2 would not be echoed.
• Fixed a bug that caused the Save As dialog to be shown every time a user-created Max for Live MIDI Tool was saved using the regular “Save” command due to the default Max MIDI Transformation.amxd and Max MIDI Generator.amxd presets being marked as read-only.
• Fixed a bug in DS Clap where the first note played after adding the device would have an unexpected sound.
• Improved performance of Sets containing Max for Live instruments and audio effects.
• In MPE Control and Expression Control, fixed an issue where two-breakpoint curves with the second breakpoint at the maximum values (127 127) would be slightly off.
• Fixed a crash that occurred when loading certain Max for Live devices with MIDI routings.
• Fixed a bug that would display the class name of a Max for Live MIDI Tool in the Status Bar instead of the Tool's actual name.
• The default save locations for Max for Live MIDI Tools are now set to User Library/MIDI Tools/Transformations and User Library/MIDI Tools/Generators.

For all the upcoming features in Live 12.1, we'd need a dedicated thread… Also, I find it fascinating that NI just closed the KK3 roadmap thread a few weeks ago, promising we'd see a new one "in the coming days", and now again.. nothing. It's frustrating.

So, if you want a properly supported and updated product, I'm not sure KK3 is the way to go. If it can do what you want right now, you're good, otherwise I wouldn't buy it.

Thank you, @Matthew_NI. Looking forward to Play Assist.

It's super easy for people (on the outside looking in) to make unfair assumptions, and then for others to make their own decisions (financial decisions too!) all based on that unfair assumption.

Ableton and Native are different companies, each with their own different ownership structures and business challenges. Ableton is still German-owned. Native is owned by Francisco Partners, which is American, and is based in California.

Yes, I get it, the old practices of removing features and having catastrophic product launches; that's unacceptable. But NI has been trying to turn things around since then. These things take time, and seriously, if it's really true that "so many things" are broken with KK, then we should expect the fixing to take some time. Yes, more time than anybody expects. Sorry, that's just facts.

Another thing that just gets conveniently ignored is the increased involvement that the _NI team members have been exhibiting here and in the other forums. Just yesterday, I was doing a bit of Sunday reading, and I found several posts from prior days from an _NI person who said they OPENED A TICKET on behalf of the person who was having a problem.

That never happened in the "bad old days". You know, the days when Guitar Rig hadn't seen an upgrade for 10 years. Hell, back then we'd be lucky if an _NI person would just be honest with us in the forums, and even then it seemed to only happen when it was time to tell us they were killing Kore or Rig Kontrol. The rest of the time, we just got ignored.

Today, they open tickets for us!

The KK MK3 launch was an unmitigated disaster, and that's inexcusable. I think NI and its corporate owners know this now, and everybody is trying hard to earn back our trust.

But yeah, it's long-past time for us to start showing some grace. Just don't screw it up, Native Instruments! 🤨

Didn‘t know about Play Assist. That‘s very good to hear!

How do we stay up to date on the Play Assist development? Do you have a rough expected release date?

I've searched for an update on where things are, but there is no updated post as you did a month or so back. It does help keep users in the loop so would be nice to have… Doesn't need to be anything overly long as the last one, just current focus and approximate timeframes would be really nice to know.

I purchased an S88 Mk3 on the back of the previous post you made, knowing that MIDI templates were on the way - so they are well worth doing for potential buyers to see.