GUI Question: why are certain features bound together independent of "group panel elements"?

P-box · 2024-01-19T13:11:23+00:00

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This has now happened a number of times in different Ensembles I am editing and re-configuring to learn about building Ensembles and GUI's.

In this example, I am trying to resize the sample display windows (with its 3 different panels). In order to do this, I need to move the 3 items controlling the Fade button.

Mouse area
Numerical value readout
Fade label

When I move any of them, they are linked to eachother, and constrain movement. Any two can be moved, but moving the 3rd item returns the first two to the original position!?

I have attempted to check or uncheck "Group Panel Elements" on any of the macros these 3 features are contained in, without any effect at all.

What is responsible for these items being bound together this way?

I don't need someone to move them for me, I need help understanding why this is happening.

Thanks!

Loop Sampler hack 02c ColB.ens

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Cal Scott

Looks like stacked macros, you can try copy and paste those elements outside of the stacked macro and reconnect them

P-box

Thanks @Cal Scott!

Let me take a look and see if that works.

Cal Scott

Also removing the frame from each of the stacked macros will free up the panel elements so you can place where you want.

P-box

Hi @Cal Scott,

I was not able to copy and paste the elements, as you suggested, without disrupting the function. I beleive it is the context of the function. When you disable the loop button, the Fade and Release buttons disappear.

I was, however, able to create a new macro, and place the stacked macro with the GUI elements inside.

I connected new inputs and outputs to and from (and within) the new macro.

It now displays correctly, and the buttons functionality on the GUI seem fine, but the functionality of the items with regard to the waveform display do not work!

And I was able to resize the Waveform window, which was the whole point of trying to move the Fade and Release buttons, but instead of automatically resizing the waveform to conform with the new window, the height of the new waveform adjusted correctly but the length stops at the original pixel size!?

There are rules I just don't understand... Using debug mode to view the cables, all data is being transmitted through the new macro correctly.

I can't find anywhere in the original structure where the waveform display is defined, but the height corrected, just not the lenght.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated!

Test B.ens

Cal Scott

Yeah reaktor buildings full of things like this, but its good way to learn, gradually you tick them off until theres not so many obstacles...

Not sure off the top of my head on this one, but sure i'll check it out...

colB

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/128019#Comment_128019

Not saying this is the only problem ;), but one thing is that for waveform displays like this, if you change the size of the display, you sometimes need to update the number of objects... 1 object per pixel, or similar... It doesn't have to work that way, but does in this case.

P-box

@colB Thank you!

I would never have known to look for that, but it resizes perfectly!

I still cannot understand the Stacked Macro issue with being unable to move the 3 Fade items. Even deleting this in the structure, resizing the GUI of the waveform, and reinserting the stacked Macro, it replaces itself to the same location it was deleted from (which at this point is overlapped by the wavefrom GUI). Is there any documentation as to the rules for this? I sure can't find any.

I even tried placing the stacked Macro within another stacked Macro. In this case, I can easily move the 3 Fade items, but their functionality is broken (they toggle and numerically adjust - but without any effect on the Waveform GUI or on audio functionality)

Any thoughts or examples from other Ensembles would be greatly appreciated.

And yes, I know this Ensemble is very buggy aside from these issues, but I am trying to figure things out one step at a time and have run into this problem (with moving GUI items in a stacked Macro) when I've attempted editing other interesting Ensembles.

colB

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/129110#Comment_129110

Reaktor does a weird thing where it tries to adjust the view port within the window to make stuff visible... so if you have a visible macro, and then you drop another visible item into it with a smaller size, you can drag it around... if there are two or more items, and you drag one around, the macro window will resize to fit so that you can position items... if there are three you can set up situations where when you drag one item, the others move instead as the view port resizes (this happens when the item you are dragging is on the left (or top) of both the macro window and the Reaktor edit pane.

The thing with stacked macros is that the same rules apply except the viewport size of the stacked macro is partially fixed (has a minimum size which is set in parameters), so it behaves in strange ways. This can be tricky, because sometimes the only way to fix it its to cut some macro out and then paste it back in to reset the position offset... however, this can change the order within the stacking mechanism, so you need to cut and past each and every one in the correct order!. It's a faff, and over time you start to get better at getting it right first time, or just starting again :). You learn to spot when it's just got too far away from you to even consider trying to fix it.

This is a shame because stacked macros are a potentially powerful mechanism, and it's technically possible to build up complex stuff like nested drop down menus, but it's impractical because as soon as something goes wrong with the placement, it's very difficult to fix.

One useful tip is that you should avoid dragging manually, instead, select items in the edit pane, then select the GUI pane by clicking in it's status bar, then use cursor keys in combination with SHIFT+CTRL for fine adjustment... That way you can easily select what you want to move, then controllably move it a click at a time... much better.

Another tip is to zero out the 'borders' of macros and stacked macros. Borders can be useful sometimes to centre text etc., but should be used at the end if all else fails.

Yet another tip for stacked macros is that when editing, depending on the situation, you might need you manually set the panel index in the edit pane using a constant for editing purposes (or an external knob if you need to easily flip between layers), then when all the layers are set up correctly, reinstate the page indexing logic. Otherwise you will be on a fast track to Stacked Macro hell :). This is very useful for stuff like the name/value on Blocks knobs, because they flip based on a mouse over timer.

P-box

@colB Thank you!

Prior to your post I was somehow able to experiment by deleting and reinserting and was able to successfully reposition the stacked macro and the GUI and functionality are both intact. Did it so many times without success that I really can't say I know why it worked the last time...

I am grateful to hear that this is a known issue. It's difficult to tell yet where I am missing the boat (with something simple and obvious) and where I am struggling against a built-in issue.

I will keep your post in my "Troubleshoot Macro's" Folder in the event I run into this again (which I believe I might)!

I really appreciate your taking the time to reply! I just love Reaktor and am determined to figure it out!

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