Feedback - Komplete Kontrol 3.0
Comments
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Thank you, good to know! For a while i was like ...******? :-)
About browser/plugin switch, i know that it is not a bug. But it's inconvenient, uncomfortable... sometimes i need to check in both hardware and software to figure where i am, or even use the mouse too, which is ok if you are at home but its annoying if you performing live, etc.
So, my idea was that maybe a firmware update may synchronize them correctly, so any change on hardware will be instantly reflected on software, and vise versa
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By the way, in the case of the new browser i have to say (with maximum emphasis!) that i really like it and prefer it! A musician must be able to see its instruments at once, in order to choose, and not just a huge list of preset names!
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Having spent a fair bit more time in KK3 in recent days I have some additional feedback.
- I am personally fine with the new browser window design, especially given that it can be resized (showing more presets and fewer instruments). It certainly solves the issue we all had with the old layout showing 3 presets when KK 2.x first opened.
- But viewing one (library view) or the other (plugin view) really affects the workflow I developed due to the multi-window design in 2.x. And instead of improving the best feature of KK, it was removed entirely. I wish that was not the case. I also find that I sorely miss being able to drag/drop presets onto the plugin windows for easy loading. I cannot seem to see what this 3.0 pin feature does? If you hover on the pin it says, "Pin the content browser to keep it open after loading a preset". I can't see that?
- And I always dragged and dropped presets to build multi's as well. I cannot even find a way to create multi's on screen any more except by dragging and dropping from the Kontakt rack view. Is there another way I am missing? This does not make any sense to me. It seems like a big step backwards.
- I think the dev. team might have underestimated the number of users who are screen-centric with KK workflow. I have always struggled with the view angle on my S88 screens but I often find myself using knobs/buttons while watching the screen. So I would call that a hybrid previewing and loading method of sorts. So the Dev. Team's decision to focus on the keyboard workflow and de-prioritize the on screen experience is a big loss for hybrid users like me.
Coming improvements?
I would be happy if I could listen to/load presets along side the plugin window like before in whatever form that takes.
But I think I would also be very happy if I could simply detach the plugin window (shown below) so it floats in my DAW and then the browser can simply be reopened whenever I want to make a change and then minimized again (just like it is now).
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Lets agree (and disagree) that the needs of a performer musician are very different than the needs of a home enthusiast. A musician must be focused on the instrument as much as possible, not on a computer screen.
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Let's agree (and disagree?) that a "home enthusiast" can also be a musician.
And I would strongly suggest that NI's market for the S-Series is FAR, FAR larger for a studio environment rather than on a stage.
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Yes, both sentences are fully correct. But exactly this is the reason why I wouldn't exclude one option from the other.
What's the problem for a live musician who likes to focus more on his instrument & LCD screen in case even more essential information about the currently selected plugin can also be displayed in parallel on the PC screen? The same is true for the studio guy sitting in front of his DAW. He might be more focused on the PC screen and occasionally take some advantages the keyboards offers, for example using the keyboard knobs for some fine adjustments for the active plugin. I guess there's no way around a solution to satisfiy both use cases where one option is supporting the other (and vice versa).
@MyStudioOne wrote:
I would be happy if I could listen to/load presets along side the plugin window like before in whatever form that takes.
Exactly that would be the first step in the right direction (and we have already been there before).
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I think the greater point is that NI would serve the largest number of users (new and old) by improving the on screen features in conjuction with the keyboard experience regardless of whether you use an MK2 (there is an army of MK2 users out there) or MK3. That is in terms of shared and backwards compatible functionality. And I do understand that the 3 does a number of things the 2 cannot.
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I absolutely agree of course, a home enthusiast (we all are anyway) can also be a musician (ever a great one sometimes)! I was talking about performing musicians, because as you probably know, not every musician is a performer too. :-)
Yet, even in a studio environment (which is the usual case also for me), i do feel the need to focus on the keyboard as much as possible.
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I agree 100% with @B.Minor , some users out there "get it" in regards to proper workflow and functionality. Not all of us like to be confined to just using NKS2 plugins and features, giving up the wealth of actual quality and capable options out there. Some like to operate within confined limits but having KK already offer us things like the ability to browse using BANKS, being able to click through presets AND also see the plugin and controls it still feels like a massive step backwards and unlikely to improve on that front any time soon at least so if these are important to you, v2.x may be the last version you use.
Misses the point of what people want entirely. Why bother with the limited display on the bottom and a virtual keyboard taking away even more of the already crippled view when people want to see the plugin itself. There are many reasons why we want to see the plugin and still easily select presets and no one is asking for the small 3 preset display of before of course, we are asking for a FULL browser list on the left like before since how it is now you have to scroll horizontal to read the names in columns instead of being able to scan a fast moving single vertical list. The people this makes sense to are those that do a lot of reading, programming and generally operate in a world where EVERYTHING you read is in a sequence, not top/down/up/to the right/down... Again, this is more movement for your eye and the complete opposite of efficient design like most of the decisions in the interface.
While I respect the fact you love your new MK3 and the workflow it offers to you now (power to you), many of us long term users find it much more of a chore/frustration/annoyance to try and use compared to the simple and easy workflow that V2 offered for 10 YEARS. Of course it needed improvements, but this is not what many of this 300+ page thread consider "improved" at all (in regards to the browser, which is the primary function KK offers).
Anything that adds in more clicks and view switches, requires your eye to move around the screen more is not an improvement in design and as long as it remains in such a state, I will be vocal about how poor a design choice it is and hope others will also continue to rally for needed change.
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Hi everyone,
I wanted to share my experience with KK3 and explain why I downgraded to KK2 for the time being:
- The modal browser in KK3 is unusable for me. I often use KK in standalone mode to browse presets, but the new version requires switching back and forth, which disrupts my workflow and immersion. I understand this design might mirror the state on the MK2/3 (where you either browse or play), but applying this paradigm to the desktop version seems misguided.
- On my desk, I have an M32, which seems currently incompatible with KK 3.0.3 on Windows 10 (22H2). The browser button doesn't switch to browser mode. Even if you manually switch, the jog wheel doesn't properly navigate the presets. It's unclear which option is selected and how to navigate from mode to plugin to type, etc. This appears to be a significant bug for M32 users.
- I also want to highlight the need for resizing or setting a more reasonable default size for the browser. This issue is already high on the backlog, but it's worth reiterating.
On a positive note, the move to Qt and the rewriting of core parts seem like steps in the right direction! I'm optimistic that the issues with the M32 will be resolved and that the ability to resize the browser will be added. My main hope is that the new architecture will facilitate our much-needed feature: the ability to display the browser and the plugins simultaneously. Having read through more than 30 pages of feedback, it's clear that many users consider this the primary UX flaw in the new KK. So, please prioritize this feature in your backlog!
Thank you for considering this feedback and being so open in your communication.
P.S. As a dedicated user of NI gear, including the S49 MK2, Maschine MK3, M32, and the full Komplete 14 Collector's Edition, I've also opted out of usage data tracking. It's worth noting that many of us with significant investments in NI products might not be represented in your data.
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@j0tt I'm curious (and please don't take this the wrong way) but you say that "many of us with significant investments in NI products might not be represented in your data" just after saying "As a dedicated user of NI gear, including the S49 MK2, Maschine MK3, M32, and the full Komplete 14 Collector's Edition, I've also opted out of usage data tracking"
Why not leave data tracking enabled so your usage data is represented?
-- Mike
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Because, as mentioned by others before, it's considered "best practice", particularly in GDPR countries where there's a mindset focused on data privacy, when the extent of the data collected and its actual use are not clear. Usually, it's just for pure marketing metrics and advertisement optimizations, so I did not expect it to have a major impact on NI product development.
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From @JesterMgee quote:
"Anything that adds in more clicks and view switches, requires your eye to move around the screen more is not an improvement in design and as long as it remains in such a state, I will be vocal about how poor a design choice it is and hope others will also continue to rally for needed change."
There is no greater contributor to the horrible design mess of the old KK layout than constant jumping around of window elements caused by the various sizes of the instrument panels.
The "simplified instrument panel" of my mockup solves the fundamental cause of the eyeball-straining mess of the old design. The needed functionality of auditioning presets more deeply can be accomplished with this "simplified instrument panel".. and that I believe is how most users would appreciate and use this capability. Those who DO want to more deeply work with the instrument can click on through to the old, jumpy-sized legacy panel.
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Never suffered that isssue and your design fails to address every point I made so IMO is not a relevant replacement, especially since you fail to understand the problem it appears.
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I
understand
that
it
hurts
your
eyeballs
when
you
have
to
read
text
horizontally.....
it
appears.
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basically proven the point for me there.
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