Komplete Kontrol 3.02 - Still not showing all expansions. Vst 2 will not work with 3.02 in windows.

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  • B.Minor
    B.Minor Member Posts: 180 Advisor

    I wouldn't be surprised if Steinberg were working on a VST4 standard, although back in 2020, they said they weren't planning on it.

    Well, even Cubase 13 - which was just released by Steinberg - still supports VST2 officially on both, Windows and Intel Mac platforms.

  • BIF
    BIF Member Posts: 950 Guru

    Okay, I'll take your word for that; sure. But that may be just a distinction without a difference.

    If NI says "hey, just letting you know that one day we're gonna need to break our stuff and VST2", it kind of doesn't matter what Cubase supports or doesn't support. What Cubase supports affects all Cubase users, which might only be a minority of the people who use NI plugins and KK.

    And the biggest reason I'm thinking that Steinberg might want to eventually put out a VST4 could be for copyright and IP reasons. With all of the scatterbrained rules and laws all around the world, this may just be the thing to do, even if it's more like VST3.1 in practice and for branding or IP reasons they call it "VST4.0: Now with MIDI 2.0 and Extra YumYum Sauce!".

    Hey, it could happen. Weirder things have! 😏

  • B.Minor
    B.Minor Member Posts: 180 Advisor

    According to your theory it seems there isn’t much time left anymore until VST4 comes around the corner; currently Steinberg’s SDK appears to be at VST3.7.9 already 😏…

  • rdalcroft
    rdalcroft Member Posts: 193 Advisor
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/105146#Comment_105146

    Probably. lol

  • BIF
    BIF Member Posts: 950 Guru

    "According to your theory..."

    Fine, over-emphasize what I said if you must. I never said VST4 was imminent. I DID say that we could see it. And with that, VST2 could be sunsetted.

    I'm just not here to fight with anybody. But observation can tell us a lot:

    1. Something either gets upgraded or it gets sunsetted (Example: Kore 2 and OS2 Warp).
    2. After any sequence of repeated upgrades, older stuff gets sunsetted anyway (Example: KK MK1 and, haha, Windows XP).

    And all I said above was that in 2020, Steinberg said they weren't planning on an upgrade of the VST standard to version 4. Well, surprise, surprise, it's not 2020 anymore. It's actually 2024 right now, for lookahead planning and budgeting purposes.

    Things change, and we the customers usually don't find out about changes until an official announcement. Well, Native Instruments has just said we should get off VST2, and they DID say that in an official announcement. Food for thought.

    So yeah, "my theory" is that I still think odds favor that Steinberg DOES come out with a VST4 at some point. Under the covers, it could just be VST 3.1 + MIDI 2.0 (like I said in my earlier post) or something similar to that, but there are many good reasons to implement a full-version increment bump. One of those good reasons MIGHT be to sunset the older -2 version.

    To me, NI's urging to get off VST2 is valid writing on the wall. Take it to heart or don't; it's your choice.

  • B.Minor
    B.Minor Member Posts: 180 Advisor
    edited November 2023


    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/105195#Comment_105195

    It was also no intention from my side to put up any fight. Because of what btw.?

    I guess you just got my statement completely wrong.

    Under the covers, it could just be VST 3.1...

    I just wanted to point out with my initial reference to VST3.7.9 that we are past that "VST 3.1" point already you have mentioned. Nothing more or less. 😎

  • rdalcroft
    rdalcroft Member Posts: 193 Advisor

    I think so to, light banter I think.

  • Matthew_NI
    Matthew_NI Product Team Posts: 1,398 mod
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/105104#Comment_105104

    Not for much longer, it doesn't: https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-us/articles/4409561018258-VST-2-Discontinued

  • mykejb
    mykejb Moderator Posts: 1,693 mod

    One of the last major hold-outs on VST2 used to be Universal Audio with their DSP based stuff, but apart from a few older plugins that they no longer sell they've now moved that to VST3. That might be the trigger for Steinberg to attempt to drop VST2 in Cubase 14.

    -- Mike

  • B.Minor
    B.Minor Member Posts: 180 Advisor
    edited November 2023
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/107482#Comment_107482

    @Matthew_NI: I’m sorry but I guess this is not quite correct (anymore, as the linked report is almost two years old).

    I have Cubase Pro 13 just running here on my Windows PC, and it is still supporting VST2 natively. This also applies to Intel Macs and Apple Silicon Macs running in Rosetta 2 mode. Please refer to the very first topic located on the Steinberg homepage under Cubase FAQ (I’m not allowed to post links here).

  • Matthew_NI
    Matthew_NI Product Team Posts: 1,398 mod

    That's what they've advised, and will likely be true relatively soon.

  • B.Minor
    B.Minor Member Posts: 180 Advisor

    Maybe, but in fact another full year has been added to the official VST2 support.

  • BIF
    BIF Member Posts: 950 Guru

    Thanks for that, @Matthew_NI . It would be good for everybody to be able to read that notice from Steinberg.

    My question for the forum now is...are any VST plugin makers STILL making VST2 versions of their plug ins and have not yet made VST3 an option?

    If so, who are they? I want to know if any of my stuff might still be at risk for breaking one day.

    And finally, is there anything that I as a consumer can/should do with my existing installs? Or will VST2 just get disengaged as I continue to periodically apply updates to my VST plugins?

    Thanks!

  • B.Minor
    B.Minor Member Posts: 180 Advisor
    edited November 2023

    @BIF: The link you are asking for has already been included in Matthew_NI’s reply above:

    https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-us/articles/4409561018258-VST-2-Discontinued

    However, as you can see, that statement was sent out by Steinberg in January 2022. At this time VST2 support was predicted to last for further 24 months only. Well, we're almost there; but contrary to Steinberg's initial plans they decided to keep on supporting VST2 officially, that's why they just released the Cubase 13 series by simultaneously confirming full VST2 support (https://www.steinberg.net/cubase/faq/). In other words, this means that VST2 will be around for at least another full year until the next generation of Steinberg DAWs will be released usually.

    Related to your question how the VST vendors are currently reacting, I can only tell you about my own experiences.

    For example, I was in direct contact with Spitfire Audio for almost half a year, asking them when they'd be finally willing to migrate their "Original Series" VST2 NKS patches from currently VST2 to VST3 (what they have advertised btw.). In fact, their related NKS patches for that series were (and still are) tailored to VST2 exclusively and Spitfire don't dare to migrate those patches to VST3. They even confessed to me that "there is too much going on currently on NI's side around VST3 and NKS" and the regular environment changes related to that topic. I can only guess that they were referring to the NKS2 specification which was still in works at this time and had to be aligned with the VST3 format first. Spitfire simply didn't know anymore in which direction to drive their NKS implementations, so they didn't proceed with those at all - at least until now. This reflects how companies may feel about the current situation. They seem to be rather deterred than motivated to proceed under these circumstances and with that kind of unknown territory.

    A similar experience I had with VSL. I'm living just a few kilometers away from VSL's Synchron Studio. Currently they also haven't implemented VST3 NKS into their latest commercial products, as they claimed as well that the NKS specs were not clear enough yet and they'd rather wait for the moment (whatever that means).

    Nobody knows how to interpret that situation on our end customers' side, as such statements don't help at all. Therefore, I can only hope that NI is realizing that it would be a very good idea to hold on to well-known and approved formats by continuing supporting those within KKV3 for another year, until all NKS specs are completed and VST vendors are finally all on the same page.

  • BIF
    BIF Member Posts: 950 Guru

    Thanks for that.

    For everybody else, here's the relevant passage on Steinberg's Cubase 13 FAQ page:

    Does Cubase 13 support VST2 plug-ins?


    Yes, Cubase 13 supports VST2 plug-ins on Windows and Intel Macs. Apple Silicon Macs only support VST2 in Rosetta 2, not in the native mode.

    Based on that wording, I do agree with @B.Minor that it's more likely that Cubase 13 will retain VST2 support. Depending on Steinberg's upgrade cycle, this could buy Cubase users another 12, 18, or more months of VST2 support IN CUBASE.

    What this does NOT necessarily guarantee, however; is that OTHER Steinberg products, such as Wavelab, for example, will continue to provide VST2 support (as they get updates/upgrades). It also doesn't guarantee that other Steinberg products will be provided in VST2, or will come in a VST2 compatible version.

    I don't need VST2 anymore, not even for old projects. So here's my plan for me.

    1. If something comes in both VST2 and VST3, I will install VST3 only (assuming that I'm given a choice).
    2. If something comes in VST2 only, then I'm going to ask that vendor when VST3 support will be provided.

    2.a If that vendor seems to be actively working on migrating to VST3, then I might still buy the VST2 version.

    2.b If not, then I will wait. Or I'll pick the vendor who already has promised or delivered VST3 support. Almost everything out there has at least one competitor.

    I already did something similar to this when the last stragglers were finally coming out with 64 bit support.

    On the Mac side, it appears that Rosetta support isn't too resource intensive, so for now I won't worry. But I can't imagine Apple keeping Rosetta going for more than a few more years.

    Thanks again, @B.Minor

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