Using maschine jam alone

Kayya
Kayya Member Posts: 171 Advisor
edited January 17 in Maschine

hello friends, these days when I play by mixing ready-made music, I seem to want to add creativity to the work. Traktor pro's remix decks offer very limited opportunities for this job. and innovations never seem to be at the end of the road.

I thought, can I sync the maschine software and navigate between the rhythms of the scenario I created with just the jam device?

Can I edit scenarios with step sequencer?

Can maschine jam be used alone?

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Comments

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,572 Expert

    Yes, Jam is constructed to work standalone and live. It was probably also NI aim to work so. IMHO, better use is as companion of Maschine/M+.

    Step sequencer is quite good and I like also piano roll. Also touchstripes are good. I guess you could do, what you want. Jam could be better, it is not fine tuned to every detail, but it is great and heavily underrated piece of HW.

  • Kayya
    Kayya Member Posts: 171 Advisor

    I'm glad it's available. I was expecting this answer.

    How would I feel incomplete without a maschine device?

    I understand that a maschine device without a jam device is missing from the scenario feature and a few additional sound settings.

    So what does jam feel like when it's alone?

    Frankly, I don't like dealing with a mouse or other devices during work. i'm one of those who don't like to be a computer master while doing art :) forgive me for my bad english :)

    also what is the reason why jam device is badly bad?

    Is it a second device?

    The f1 device is also an excellent device, but it does not see any value because it is in the background. people seem to like only one device. Do we think the same?

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,572 Expert

    I do not use Jam live. So, no experience in this respect. If I remember well, people complained about little things, like one function is not implemented (so the shift+button has no function for one button). Than that pressing start twice could do something, I forgot, I think restart. If I remember well D-One has hacked it and it may work like that. Something with focus and effect stripes. Little quirks that make live using a bit harder. It could be ironed to be perfect with not much NI effort, but it has never happened.

    Jam pads are not velocity sensitive, so one has to set velocities by rottary or leave all the same or set them in batches. And no screens or displays. It may be difficult see where you are, if the project is a bit more complicated.

    If you use Traktor, Jam may be also used as Traktor controller.

    I guess, the problem with Jam was, that it was marketed mainly as a standalone controller for DJs (for Maschine, not Traktor) and it was not because of some reasons much accepted by them as such. Maybe because of ergonomic reasons. Jam uses for certain tasks overlay on computer screen. So obstructing the view of Traktor... Or it was just too complicated, comparing to Traktor.

    So, it may be used standalone, just it is more convenient do certain things on MK3/M+ with its screens. Much less need for computer screen.

    I would say. Buy/rent Jam and you will see, if it suits your workflow. No real problem to sell it again, if it does not suite you...

  • Kayya
    Kayya Member Posts: 171 Advisor

    I carefully read what you wrote. My perspective has changed a bit. it was very good. I was seeing maschine and jam devices as a whole and defending against ableton push. but I realized that this is not the case. The two devices came out for different purposes and were brought together with users. it is now discontinued and there is a gap in the controls for the maschine software. I guess it's not the right time to add creativity to my DJ job. We will either turn to ableton push or wait for a new device. The high price of ableton push was holding me back. I think I will continue with simple playing with remix decks in Traktor Pro for a while.

    note: new controllers are also needed on the tractor pro side. it looks like something is going on. but no voice. there is no time.

    I think encountering such gaps in every field will alienate users from the brand. I may be thinking wrong. I hope they don't spread these issues over time.

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,572 Expert

    You are right that new line of HW for Traktor and Maschine might come soon. It should, if NI wants to go on with HW. But who knows, what the plans are...

    I would appreciate something modular, so that one could buy separate pieces to complete HW that suits ones needs.

    It is up to you, but I would try Jam, if you can get hold of one. It is good piece of HW even standalone as it was aimed by NI.

  • Kayya
    Kayya Member Posts: 171 Advisor

    In a country where the dollar is very valuable, it is very difficult to try and the losses are big :) I think I am not in a hurry, I would like to go where the new hws drag us, if it is competitive :) Thank you very much for your help. Nice title for those who need it :)

  • Kaldosh
    Kaldosh Member Posts: 245 Advisor

    https://maps.djtechtools.com/mappings/6883

    This template is a dream for Traktorist M Jam users

    If you use it with Maschine on the side to trigger loops and replace the sampler , no need to watch the UI since you can group and color your loops by categories and also can set up a prehear system anyway.

    The bonus is the perform FX to animate your loops but really, Jam is an amazing tool that can be tailored to your needs in Traktor to complement your traktor controller, I personally use it as a mixer with my own template, still, this template from DJ Tech Tools gets you covered to handle your Sampler decks

  • Kayya
    Kayya Member Posts: 171 Advisor

    As a personal opinion, I am against using the devices released by the brands other than the original support. after a while you create your own private world and break from industry standards. your artistic practice turns into a computer mastery.

    Thank you all for sharing. Surely there will be masters who evaluate :)

  • Kaldosh
    Kaldosh Member Posts: 245 Advisor
    edited January 16

    As long as it remain your personal opinion I have nothing against that but their is no proprietary terms and condition against either so it is both legally/ artistically/ technically acceptable and required in many cases 😄

  • Mutis
    Mutis Member Posts: 472 Pro

    That’s the problem with Pioneer filling all segments, standarization means Pioneer proposal.

    There wa upon a time where the standard for digital djing were experimentation over controllers but since NI managed to ward off partnerships (from Pioneer with the Z2/Djm-t1 issue and djtt with unhearing the community back in the day) in the end we got the same “mixing 2 songs” paradigm from turntables.

    Now we have the stems paradigm finally well implemented (by others) pushing for real the innovation train and NI out of game since they ditched hw division even they have the best controllers for stems (but discontinnued). They arrive to early for their own implementation and ditched the whole even faster (probably to make company numbers attractive for FP company) to a point even Traktor as a division was in the edge (and my gut says “under magnification glass” control)

    I hope to be wrong and Traktor has a very strong internal roadmap getting checkboxes everyday fill but externally it doesn’t seems so.

    My conclusion after all my usual “kool aid boy talk” is don’t buy legacy NI hw because isn’t going to get any driver update for Apple Silicon computers and isn’t class compliant of course.

    Experimentation times on djing arr gone. If AI contines growing at its actual speed, Pioneer will implement Kuvo2 or “synthetic mixing” and just sell a sensor kit for dancefloor leaving us for madmax raves or true underground (like Demolition man) raves. :P

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 2,572 Expert

    Fortunately, driver "problem" does not almost exist on Win. Generally, no real problem to use legacy NI HW. And it will not be real problem for many years on.... Those controlers more probably go to silicon heaven sooner than drivers become unusable...

  • Kaldosh
    Kaldosh Member Posts: 245 Advisor

    If AI can implement juice framework I’ll ask it to make me a custome driver according to my needs 🤪

  • Mutis
    Mutis Member Posts: 472 Pro


    Outside NI driver problem isn't a problem. NI is the only brand without class compliant hw still in production (like S8 or F1) so if I'm not going to use only Traktor (because still hasn't stems among other things) why to buy a NI controller instead a Pioneer with class compliant support?

    To Maschine Jam (so back on topic) the answer is Novation Launch controllers. Launchpad for the grid and Launch Control XL for the faders. It doesn't works with Maschine but works with everything else from Ableton to iPads. Even the Launchpad Pro works as standalone with its midi i/o and internal sequencer. Also these second hand priced similar than Maschine Jam (around 200 euros the LPP and 100 euros the LCxl).

    NI lost the plot over the JAM release times and that's why it got discontinued (like D2/S5) without getting the promised features in Maschine sw. M+ user request to implement JAM on it was an "extra". It wasn't on the release but it was a detail NI hearing the user base. That's why I haven't too much hope on JAM future.

    Aside that I made a proposal (over the old forum times) to Maschine product manager to implement some kind of "standalone box" with the M+ internals and also I found someone doing something in that field with its Rebellion Project but NI didn't show any interest on that idea.

    rebellion-a-framework-to-access-native-instruments-devices-via-niha-nihia-ipc.456971


    If NI releases a standalone box with 2 screens and minimum controls (push+encoder, folder search buttons, etc) will be a solution and maybe attractive to some users. Something like the Numark Dashboard but with M+ mainboard and connections.



    But in the end if M+ sales didn't go properly well maybe this is making deeper the hole...

    Also with an old late12 mac mini maxxed (ssd+16gb Ram) + NI hardware anyone can build its own solution an not so much different from what's M+...

    Since I can run Djay/DjPlayer at my iPhone (less than 100 euros) and I don't need Maschine workflow (I prefer Toraiz sp16 or Keyboard Arrangers) I ditched the idea of building it by myself.


    Food for thought anyways.

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