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Workaround for no lockable LFO in the sampler

S Righteous
S Righteous Member Posts: 92 Sine
edited July 28 in Maschine

On other devices MPC/SP-16 etc. You can have a random LFO and set it to lock, so that whatever the position is when the sample is triggered, it doesn't change during the playback of the sample. This is super useful for drum samplers where you want to add pitch variation - the Random LFO adds a bit of random pitch, but you don't want the pitch to change during the duration of the sample playing.

This is such a common drum sampler feature that I can't believe the Maschine+ doesn't have this. The LFO "lock" has to do with locking to tempo. I think Battery has had this for ages.

Has anyone found a workaround for this, so that you can add some random pitch into the samples?



  • Nico_NI
    Nico_NI BerlinAdministrator Posts: 989 admin

    That's pretty much a Sample and Hold function of the LFO I believe.

    This tutorial illustrates the LFO part with the Lock function:

    However, I'm not sure how this is achievable on M+. I will check that out asap!

  • S Righteous
    S Righteous Member Posts: 92 Sine

    Unfortunately that video isn't describing the situation I am talking about. He is applying constant modulation to a drum loop, so you hear the changes as the loop plays.

    I'm talking about setting a random LFO, and on sample trigger, if the LFO is applying +2% pitch, then that pitch is locked and constant for the duration of the sample. The next time you trigger that snare, the LFO might be applying -3% pitch, and that pitch would apply for the duration of the sample playback. This is how people have been adding random variation into drum hits since samplers were invented. Maschine should have this.

  • Murat Kayi
    Murat Kayi DortmundMember Posts: 224 Saw

    Its not automated (but sounds similar):

    Use step automation on a pattern. Each step, any parameter on any plugin can have different values

  • S Righteous
    S Righteous Member Posts: 92 Sine

    Thanks for the advice - but it doesn't match my use case.

    Automating pitch is not the same as applying random pitch, because you have to do it on every step, and it will repeat the same each time. It's not random.

    Also, I play drum kits from Maschine using an Octapad, so it's not recorded data, can't use automation.

    I think they just dropped the ball on this common and useful feature.

  • Flexi
    Flexi Member Posts: 219 Saw

    Set LFO to Random, sync to Retrigger, speed to 1/32, would be nice if it went faster, but 32nds are pretty fast anyway, now set your pitch range.

    Its not ideal but at least at 16ths you will get random pitch per trigger.

  • darkwaves
    darkwaves Member Posts: 162 Saw

    Just kind of playing with it; both "random" and "retrigger" seem super odd to me. Take a sustained sample (like a guitar) and put it in the piano roll. 1 bar pattern, a single note covering the entire pattern. Now set the lfo to random, 16/1, regtrigger. Turn pitch all the way up (or down or whatever). When I do it; it's just alternating pitches?

    It doesn't do what I'd expect it to do. More importantly, I can't understand what it's doing at all.

  • S Righteous
    S Righteous Member Posts: 92 Sine

    Flexi - this is closest to what I'm trying to achieve. It does seem like the LFO position stays constant for the full 32nd note. When I play beats live with the Octapad though, (so not hitting exactly on the 16th note) I can hear that the sample switches pitch during it's playback, which sounds bad.

    But for programmed beats, this should work !

  • Flexi
    Flexi Member Posts: 219 Saw

    Yeah, to be honest you need an extra sync rate "On trigger" that would do it perfectly, so it just random generates a value everytime it receives a trigger.

    I doubt anything new is coming for core features like this though, they seem to be set in stone.

  • ozon
    ozon SwitzerlandMember Posts: 608 Saw

    I’d try with slower rate. Actually you want no rate at all but change at trigger. Ramdom Rate 16/1 Retrigger should do what you want. Can’t currently verify, since I’m too far from my Maschine.

  • darkwaves
    darkwaves Member Posts: 162 Saw
    edited July 29

    I played with this a bit more. It really is strange.

    My guess: The LFO doesn't work if there isn't sound being passed through and it is somehow related to the speed. Not really sure what the relation is, but there's something there.

    Just messing around with a snare. 1 bar pattern. Speed is at 1/1

    This works:

    The very tip of the tail of the snare is looping here; I guess a single sample. I put the gate there because I originally had it looping a longer section, but it's not needed. Off topic, but using this same concept with the filter instead of pitch and add a gate. You get something very close to a random chance. If only we had multiple LFOs to play with.

    If I change the speed to something larger than 1/1 (specifically; bigger than the pattern), then it just creates a repeating sequence. Speed needs to be the same or smaller than the pattern.

    Switch it back to 1/1. Turn off the loop and it just stops working. No pitch change.

    Turn on loop and lower the release too much and I lose the pitch change completely.

    A weird result: Turn loop on. Turn polyphony to 1. Have speed at 16/1. Release at max. I get an alternating pattern. High, low, high, low. Same notes. Switch polyphony to 2 and I get a different alternating pattern. 3 notes this time, but they're the same notes repeating. Polyphony to 4 and I get more repeating notes. Maybe the random shape of the lfo won't change until it gets to the end and it never gets to the end if the length is longer than the pattern? Really struggling to understand the logic being applied here.

    So the workaround: set a tiny loop point on your drums , set the speed to the length of your pattern or smaller and you probably want to mess with the phase. I hope one of the NI folks can get some of the devs to explain what's going on here.

    Edit: Uh. Maybe it's not based on the pattern length. A 16th note hat pattern does the alternating sequence unless the speed is 1/4 or smaller.

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