Song made with Komplete rejected by Soundcloud because of UGC fingerprinting ineligibility

djdont
djdont Member Posts: 7 Member
in Komplete General

Greetings,

I just uploaded my first song to Soundcloud for artists and it was made exclusively with instruments from Komplete on my Maschine studio. I received the following rejection notice, due to UGC fingerprinting services, basically saying that my song is not eligible for YouTube Content ID, Facebook, TikTok because it violates the DRM scan for some reason.

Has anyone else experienced this? Is it possible that a song using a particular instrument sound has been uploaded before mine and somehow "owner of that sound"?

I'm at a loss as to why it would be flagged as it is completely original, no sdamples or loops, just my Maschine and Komplete.

Here is a link to the song in question:
https://soundcloud.com/planet-zen-music/soul-bloom-drift-in-peace

Here are the rules around the DRM scan and what is and is not eligible: https://help.soundcloud.com/hc/en-us/articles/360051802613-What-is-Digital-Rights-Management-DRM-and-what-content-is-eligible


The notice I got when submitting follows:
Rejection Notes

Please make sure to fix any errors before submitting:

In order for us to accept this release, please disable all UGC fingerprinting services as this content is not eligible: YouTube Content ID, Facebook, TikTok


Please advise,
Don T

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Comments

  • mykejb
    mykejb Moderator Posts: 2,232 mod

    No idea about the fingerprinting problem sorry, but love the track !

  • Milkman
    Milkman Member Posts: 291 Advisor

    Yikes! Yeah Venus Theory did a video on youtube about similar things a few weeks ago. He showed how easy it is to game that entire music ID nonsense and how you can easily take down other content creators' music or make difficult to publish.

    Im frankly so entirely nonplussed by this entire industry garbage pit that I dont use the internet to publish music anymore lmao. Stopped that a decade ago. Im done with all of it, including social media. I play live, playback recorded music live, and share freely. I wouldnt dream of trying to sell music under this economy.

  • ALDREAD
    ALDREAD Member Posts: 354 Pro
    edited January 18

    I’ve read in some forum about a guy whos claiming he made these old jungle tunes from now defunct labels , and then getting the originals pulled off YouTube

  • djdont
    djdont Member Posts: 7 Member
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/204569#Comment_204569

    I saw that and it is exactly what came to mind when I saw this notice.

  • 13thDuke
    13thDuke Member Posts: 6 Member

    Of course no-one really knows how the algorithms work, but I’m wondering if you’ve used a lot of presets in the track? It could be that the algorithm has scanned these a number of times before and is there using “an abundance of caution”. But - frankly - who knows…

    Enjoyed the track BTW - especially the ‘tingly bassline’ :)

  • Monochrome
    Monochrome Member Posts: 1,405 Expert
    edited January 18

    There are various distribution sites online that explain this a bit - e. g.:

    Bottom line is: If you use any non-exclusive samples (i. e. samples everyone can use; Komplete ones fall under this) in your release(s), then you can't distribute your release(s) to YouTube, Facebook or TikTok. As these platforms use Content Recognition systems, if the sample you're using is already part of existing tracks online or could be obtained by anyone to use in their release, inaccurate matches and claims would be generated if a track using the same sample gets sent to Content Recognition stores (YouTube etc…).

  • djdont
    djdont Member Posts: 7 Member

    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/204578#Comment_204578

    So fricken lame. I see a huge problem for anyone without proper proof of copyright at this moment.

    Just when its time to get it right… 🤦‍♂️

  • ALDREAD
    ALDREAD Member Posts: 354 Pro
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/204735#Comment_204735

    yeah , it’s mental , I think one of the original producers had to reach out to YouTube to get his song back on his channel

  • djdont
    djdont Member Posts: 7 Member
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/204592#Comment_204592

    @13thDuke that crossed my mind too, but the original sounds are nebulous to begin with and then I added processing that made it sound even less like it's original(e.g track time 2 min) . I also tried a couple of online music, recognition tools and came up with some, I would say substantially different results. I'll put a link to the Shazam result, which has some similar elements, but I have to believe that the algorithm can pass the structure as well as all the audio information. Not only that but the audio information seems complicated enough for it to see the difference, but as you said; what do I know about the algorithm?

    and thanks! Tingly basslines are where its at ;)

    Sorta similar result from Shazam: https://youtu.be/NnBWl5iyjmQ?t=188


  • djdont
    djdont Member Posts: 7 Member
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/204593#Comment_204593

    @Monochrome Thanks for the info, I looked at that and other resources, and it would seem that synthesized instruments are not samples, however some can be sample based(common ones being piano, guitar, or horns), so I would like some clarification on the "non-exclusive samples" part.

    @mykejb
    Would it be true that you have knowledge of exactly what the licensing usage policies are for a given NI product?

    If so can you speak to "If you use any non-exclusive samples (i. e. samples everyone can use; Komplete ones fall under this) in your release(s)"?

    Do sampled sounds from Komplete fall under non-exclusive samples that anyone can use? If that is the case, how would it be possible for anybody to record and release music using Komplete if the sounds being used fall into a licensing category that would prevent usage for commercial purposes.

    I appreciate the feedback from everyone. Its helpful to try and piece things together. 👊

  • mykejb
    mykejb Moderator Posts: 2,232 mod
    edited January 19

    The licence and usage permissions for Native Instruments content/presets/sounds can be found here and it states that "All Samples, Instruments and Presets provided by Native Instruments may be used for commercial music production and compositions anytime without any further permission by Native Instruments".

    https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/210264205-Can-I-Use-Native-Instruments-Sounds-for-Commercial-Music-Production

    A quick disclaimer - I'm not a Native Instruments employee and can't give any legal advice, so please check out the link and read through the full details :)

  • PK The DJ
    PK The DJ Member Posts: 2,365 Expert
    edited January 19

    Monochrome said "distribution sites online that explain this a bit"

    What?! That rules out basically anything from any kind of sample library, ever. 😲

    Does the same rule not apply to synth presets? They could also be "obtained by anyone" and have obviously been used on numerous hit records. 🤔

    What's next? You can't have a piano on your track because someone else had a piano on theirs?

    ….or kick drums, or snare drums, or any instrument - it's all been used already. You can't even release silence. That's copyright John Cage. 🤣

  • Milkman
    Milkman Member Posts: 291 Advisor

    A music corporation tried to buy Happy Birthday in 1988, claiming their associated artist owned rights to the tune and lyrics, and then collected $2 million per year for decades until they were sued in court. They never owned the rights, and it came to a head in 2015 when they lost their court case. This was leading to DMCA takedown notices on birthday party videos on youtube.

    https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-34332853

    A lawyer with the case "As elements of the song are still potentially within the maximum copyright term it may be the case that someone still owns some rights to it," said Mr Owen, a partner at law firm Taylor Wessing.

    (Meaning that someone still may get sued for publicly exhibiting "Happy Birthday" at an event or on a stream if the right lawyer brings an IP trolling suit. This is further evidence of the garbage state of copyright law)

  • mykejb
    mykejb Moderator Posts: 2,232 mod

    There's some information about UGC fingerprinting and what can cause problems here. It's not a Native Instruments site, but covers the general area of "what's allowed"

    https://helpdesk.revelator.com/support/solutions/articles/69000828338-unauthorized-content-for-ugc-dsps-facebook-lickd-snap-tiktok-youtube-cid-

  • djdont
    djdont Member Posts: 7 Member
    edited January 28

    Im about to submit a document with the NI license agreement and a page on the NI site that states I have the right to use the sounds in my recording.

    I thought I would post this here just so folks here can see the progression of this situation

    I have also attached the License information I sent Soundcloud as proof I have the right to use Native Instruments sounds in my composition

    License for commercial use.pdf



    Here is the track that Soundcloud is claiming I do not have rights to release:
    https://soundcloud.com/planet-zen-music/soul-bloom-drift

    image.png



    here are screen shots showing the usage of sounds in my DAW

    Screenshot 2025-01-27 at 2.33.11 PM.png
    Screenshot 2025-01-27 at 2.34.59 PM (2).png
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