Monark Prehear Sounds Do Not Work (Maschine 3)

SigmaDogs

I am having a problem with Monark Prehear Sounds. There isn't any sound at all. When you load the sounds to a pad, initially they don't work but with some experimentation they work again.

I have tried to delete the database file to reinitialize the database and still Monark sounds will not play PreHear sounds.

Also when you using the sounds, initially the sound barely can heard. With some playing around with switching between PADS, KEYBOARD and CHORUS the sound works again but the PreHear still does not work.

Kymeia

You need to install the previews library from NA

SigmaDogs

@Kymeia I did this. My first install, I had this issue. Then I reinstalled and everything was fine. After having created some user samples the problem reappeared. I then reinitialized the database as I have seen documented and the problem persists.

That also would not explain that when you assign them to the pad initially the volume is super low. Increasing pad volume slightly often makes things properly. Other times switching back and forth between pads, keyboard and chorus fixes the problem. I believe this to be a bug. The other packages of sounds don't appear to have this problem.

Kymeia

Don't keep messing with the database, it is irrelevant to previews sounding or not. I really wish websites would stop recommending this as routine thing to do

I'm unclear what you mean by created some user samples and the problem reappeared? Do you mean you made some patches with Monark of your own? And they did not have previews? ( they wouldn't) Or you sampled it?

SigmaDogs

@Kymeia

I meant simply creating some samples; as intended use of the unit. Nothing else implied. I then switched back to using Monark to try to create something and the problem was back. (sampling and Monark having nothing to do with each other) I did sample some samples….back to trying to us Monark …nothing else. Nothing weird. I was simply giving a timeline of events.

I am now debating returning the unit it. I think it is an awesome little "maschine" in what it can do, but I am seeing so many bugs so early on, in my adventure. I can't imagine what else will pop up.

I am now on my 4th install, as it seemed to fix the issue one time.

The bigger concern is that NI seems to have a total lack of user support. When I received my unit, it didnt have a power supply in it. I was wondering if this was normal; I understood that it CAN ( currently is) run off USB only. Well, there isn't any phone number or even an email address for the US. So I emailed the UK and received a trash reply, that was basically don't bother me. :-( This doesn't speak well for the company either.

Yes, the problem could be me in that I don't understand the hardware or software yet, but I do have a technical background (30 years databases and some programming) and some of the symptoms of things that magically appear and then disappear are quite concerning.

You said, don't recreate the database and you wish all these people would stop recommending it. What else are people to do when you can't call or email the company with a simple question?

You seem to be the only one interested in tackling this question and Thanks for that.

Again the problem clearly stated….

If you scroll through with the knob and prehear turned on, you hear nothing. This works in massive.

Often when you load a sound from Monarch, the volume is extremely low. If you take your mouse and move the little volume icon, magically the volume is normal. What isn't normal is this behavior! Sometimes switching from pad to keyboard and back to pad makes the issue go away also. ( low volume….suddenly normal from pad—>keyboard—>pad) Is this expected behavior?

Kymeia

Are you not hearing previews for any Monark patches or just some? (eg from a specific pack). The Factory sounds would have been installed with the previews library but each specific expansion also comes with previews for the Mondark sounds in them.

Kymeia

'Often when you load a sound from Monarch, the volume is extremely low. If you take your mouse and move the little volume icon, magically the volume is normal. What isn't normal is this behavior!'

Do you mean this little volume icon?

That is the volume icon for the preview sounds, if you mean this then you are hearing them after all but just have their volume too low. Once you load Monark the volume is set by Monark itself and you are no longer hearing the preview - hence the discrepancy - that is normal, you set preview volume separately from patch volume as it's just intended to enable people to preview sounds before deciding to load them or not

SigmaDogs

@Kymeia

Please. I meant the dials beside the sounds when they are on the track for the pad. (2 tiny icons that you raise and lower with mouse press -raise in software)

What was strange too, is that when this problem existed you could see the little graph icons raise to an appropriate height and you could barely hear a sound. Picture a speaker with a very bad connection.

That currently isn't a problem. I select the sound and the sound plays fine on the pad. This behavior has not been consistent and that was a problem previously.

The PREHEAR after doing a complete reinstallation of EVERYTHING again, still does not work. If I go to MASSIVE it works fine. If I go to PRISM it works fine. I realize that MONARK relies on REAKTOR to function. The thing is the sounds play fine so if REAKTOR was not installed properly, it most likely would not play at all.

So CURRENTLY works fine when assigning to the PAD but PREHEAR does not work at all.

Here are the dials I was referring to and again, I currently only have a problem with PREHEAR which has nothing to do with the dials or muted sound in the track. Again…when I had the problem, very low sound and even lowering the dials caused the sound to be normal. This to me, is NOT normal behavior for any software.
Again…currently not the problem. PREHEAR not working is the problem.

SigmaDogs

@Kymeia I figured it out this afternoon.

It has to do with the driver. I believe the default installs the ASIO driver.
The setting that works is WASAPI (Shared Mode).

Theory

This is what I believe based on the symptoms and my current knowledge.

The sounds worked fine most of the time when playing the pads, whereas the preview / PREHEAR didn't work.

When you hit LOAD, it goes out and reads the file into the MASCHINE 3.

MONARK relies on REAKTOR. So if you load a file, it doesn't care if REACTOR is there or, it doesn't need to communicate with it or it communicates in a different manner than PREHEAR.

When you do PREHEAR, it talks to REAKTOR to read the small snippets of the file. I could be entirely wrong but this would explain why MASSIVE and PRISM worked fine. They simply don't need REAKTOR. So the PREHEAR needs the drivers set correctly so it can communicate with REAKTOR.

The thing is, this can't be been some super weird problem. IF NI had an actual HelpDesk, an analyst could have quickly searched a database for known issues and this would have most likely popped up right away.

If this is documented somewhere please let me know. Just like deleting the database the advice most are providing is to use the ASIO driver. I believe there would be numerous plugins where you would run into similar problems.

Thanks for your help, as I sincerely appreciate it. Any negativity you have seen is my frustration with the lack of support for what appears to be a very good product. I think the software has a long way to go though.

ozon

@SigmaDogs

I could be entirely wrong

You are entirely wrong 😉

PREHEAR functionality just plays back audio files and does not need any of the plugins installed. For Samples, it plays back the sample file, for all other content it uses specifically prepared audio files (I think in OGG Vorbis format) of the same name as the Preset/Sound/Group/Project. As these are prepared audio files, what you listen to with PREHEAR can vary considerably from the loaded Preset — especially for synth Presets that allow tweaking with Macros (e.g. MASSIVE).

That the PREHEAR must be enabled and the PREHEAR volume must be up was already explained in the posts above.

If some presets do not offer PREHEAR functionality, then they either do not have such audio files available, or the Presets were moved or renamed, or the files are somehow corrupted.

SigmaDogs

"That the PREHEAR must be enabled and the PREHEAR volume must be up was already explained in the posts above."

This was done! Went over this previously. (in browser—> Shift—> Far Right Top Button)

I put a ton of hours in this and I can duplicate the problem over and over.

I can switch driver and everything goes off. I switch the driver back everything works.

Any explanation for that?

Now the latest thing is, that when I play certain sounds, there is a small amount of distortion. I tested this by playing back the wav in Adobe Audition and there seems to be a difference. No, the cpu is not overwhelmed with a single sound.

SigmaDogs

"there is a small amount of distortion. I tested this by playing back the wav in Adobe Audition and there seems to be a difference. "

I am playing around with the various methods to lower volume to see if I can get rid of it.

I am well aware of the CUE Volume. ( see previous post)

ozon

there is a small amount of distortion

Sample rate mismatch (44.1kHz vs 48kHz)?

SigmaDogs

@ozon Thanks! Will keep a look out for it. I have been looking at a number of things. As I said, with the Monark issue, I can replicate it over and over by simply changing the driver.

One bit of complexity that I have is that I have a Rodecaster 2 so that changes how one sets up inputs and outputs.

The distortion thing might be mostly a gain issue. I have been playing around with things and achieving fairly good results.

I appreciate you taking the time to comment.

ozon

BTW

The PREHEAR after doing a complete reinstallation of EVERYTHING again, still does not work. If I go to MASSIVE it works fine. If I go to PRISM it works fine. I realize that MONARK relies on REAKTOR to function.

Just an additional observation that speaks against a relation of this issue to REAKTOR: PRISM is also a REAKTOR ensemble.

Maybe it’s more related to file access permissions? Maybe one audio driver runs with administrator rights, while the other runs under an unprivileged user?

SigmaDogs

@ozon I might not have explained it very well but everything works as long as I use the WASAPI ( Shared Mode) driver. There aren't any problems. All of the various packages play along with PREHEAR.

My account on the machine is an admin account.

The bit of complexity is that my Windows output and input both point to my RodeCaster which is a mixer for everything.

Having eliminated some issues and fixed some really bad gain settings, I am now beginning to like this unit more and more.

Do you have any recommendations for new users, for acquiring new sounds/instruments/samples/loops at affordable prices? Is Komplete worth it?