Windows standalone installation: no sound, errors. Runs fine inside the DAW

alan9990

title says it all really. Just upgraded to Windows 11 so went about reinstalling my plugins etc. Had a few odd issues (with Windows) so was proceeding carefully. As such I went through a very thorough fresh install of Native Access 2 and Kontakt.

First thing to note is that Kontakt and the instrument libraries run as expected when hosted inside my DAW. Everything works as before. However, since I did install standalone version also, I note that it doesn't actually work as as standalone VST in Windows 11.

What I have done: READ THE INSTRUCTIONS!! I uninstalled and reinstalled a couple of times, taking care to remove the .json file also, as explained.

All of the instrument libraries show as correctly installed in Native Access. I ran "repair" on Kontakt but it reported no issues.

The only thing I have changed was the install path of the VST3. I updated the path settings in Native Access. The .vst3 was installed to my chosen location.

I do note however, that Native Access likes to keep recreating its "default" directories at

C:/Program Files/Native Instruments/VSTPlugins 32bit

C:/Program Files/Native Instruments/VSTPlugins 64bit

even though both of these folders are empty, and the .vst3 file is installed at the path set in Native Access.

This isn't therefore a "huge" issue insofar as I don't tend to run it as standalone, but I don't like the fact that it doesn't work. And by "not work" I mean e.g. to load up something like 'Ethereal Earth' says "AUDIO DRIVER NOT CONNECTED" - bearing in mind it is, and must be since none of this occurs if I use Kontakt inside my DAW. As a standalone it doesn't respond to my midi keyboard, and no sound is emitted even when using the GUI virtual keyboard.

Anyone else had this issue or know anything about it?

stephen24

Completely different setup. In a DAW, audio output goes to the host programme - there can be a large number of audio output channels which can be distributed within the DAW to other plugins if necessary - which then sorts it out and sends it to Windows. In exe version audio output (channels limited by your sound card) must go direct to Windows. It looks as though that's where your problem lies. ?Not connected up properly ?Fault in Kontakt.exe audio output.

alan9990

well… (drum roll)…

It works! Finally. Jeez.

Thanks so much for all the helpful pointers. Two things I did (obviously cannot therefore precisely determine the fix):

1. Uninstall everything NI related, and then do a thorough registry scan to remove all traces (where appropriate)
2. Use my DAW software installer in "repair" mode, which I did. It found something to repair without directly specifying what

So… after several days and a bit of swearing, I'm FINALLY back to where I was before I upgraded my OS 😏

Just remind me - do I edit the post title to mark as solved?

stephen24

Standalone means what it says (it's not a VST). Connect up to MIDI and Audio (?File>Options). Then you'll get some sound.

alan9990

Sorry? Do you honestly think I don't understand what the word "standalone" implies?

Do you actually have any solution, or did you not read/understand my question?

stephen24

So sorry if I offended you, such was not my intention.

Please read my post again, carefully this time. Ignore the first sentence if it upsets you.

DunedinDragon

I think there may be a problem in the definition of "standalone" in this case. VSTs have to be hosted whether that's in a DAW using Kontakt 7 or Komplete Kontrol, or by running the standalone hosting application such as Kontakt 7 or Komplete Kontrol. All @stephen24 was referring to was running the Kontakt 7 app standalone (outside of the DAW) which has its own mechanism (File→Option) for specifying which audio driver it will be working with.

Those actual instrument plugins along with their presets and snapshots are located in C:\Users\Public\Public Documents under the directory named for the actual instrument such as Alicias Keys, Scene - Saffron Library or Glaze.

alan9990

Thank you, both.

@stephen24 No offence taken btw, was just surprised 👍😊

@DunedinDragon perhaps I have indeed misunderstood what "standalone" is supposed to mean. To clarify: I have numerous other VSTs installed here, and as such the installers offer to provide a 'standalone' version alongside whichever version of the .vst I wish. So for example I have both the free Vital synthesiser installed, as well as the (also excellent) CollaB3 version 2 Hammond Organ. In both of those cases I can open the "app" on my Windows desktop, and using the keys on my midi keyboard controller (manufacturer USB driver installed, is officially supported under Windows 11) I can play notes and which notes are reproduced from my speakers as emanating from the chosen VST instrument - this being what I have understood as meant by a 'Standalone' version.

So when I reinstalled my software here I noted that the Kontakt installer offered me the choice of what I wanted to install, and I chose the .vst3 and accepted the default installation path for the application itself - again an .exe file.

I can open Kontakt 7 from the desktop shortcut, and a sythesiser appears. I can load a sound bank. But, not only does it not respond to my midi keyboard, also its own GUI keyboard does not work.

As per original post this is more curiosity on my part, as it works within the DAW and is where I mostly use it. However, I did not have this issue on Windows 10 (I only upgraded a couple of days ago). I am a user who doesn't enjoy software not working as expected, which is why I've asked the question.

If you're telling me that Kontakt 7 does not and cannot work as a "standalone" player in the sense that I have understood from other installed VSTs then fine, I can live with that. If not though, and my settings in Kontakt show it being connected to both my midi controller AND my audio controller (software) of choice, I'm naturally interested in solving what is a genuine issue.

😊

stephen24

OK how about one more go.

There are 2 separate versions of Kontakt: VST, which needs to be plugged into and managed by a host program, and standalone which is a self-contained "app" like Wordpad or Photoshop. Nobody has yet invented a standalone VST.

If you're really interested in getting Kontakt standalone to work you could try this:

1. Start with an empty computer (some sound setups can serve only one application at a time)
2. Open Kontakt from the desktop shortcut.
3. Load and play an nki istrument.
4. If you can't get any sound, click File>Options
5. Click MIDI>Inputs
6. Take a screenshot.
7. Click Audio
8. Take another screenshot
9. Report back with screenshots.

alan9990

@stephen24 I for the sake of clarity (I'll give that 'one more go')

I'm not a total computer noob, anymore than I'm disgruntled teenager who can't be bothered to read instructions. No screen shots necessary - you really can just ask for the desired information!

1. Done
2. Done
3. Done
4. No sound
5. yes indeed, I did this first time around. Inputs are selected for my controller (also note that I have said that no such issues exist for other vst/standalone instruments. This really is JUST Kontakt at this stage)
6. No need, as above - the controller inputs are active
7. Done
8. No need. The audio driver is selected. I can also confirm that audio works in shared mode. I can also confirm that if I install any of the alternatives such as FlexASIO there are no modes at all that give me any sound, even in developer mode where I have access to lower level Windows APIs.
9. Reporting back now

So, as you might see, despite my having been fairly thorough; despite not having had this issue in Windows 10; despite feeling that I have a sufficient grasp of computers and install procedures; despite following all the links and official information I could find, this "not actually a vst because I think you'll find it's actually an application because there's no such thing as a standalone vst" (because let's all split hairs shall we, in the absence of anyone who actually seems to understand anything about this issue in any real sense)

it doesn't work

!!!

Despite I believe I've set everything up correctly. To save you time, no need to reply if you have no clue what the issue is or how I might solve it, thank you.

PoorFellow

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/36249/windows-standalone-installation-no-sound-errors-runs-fine-inside-the-daw

The only thing I have changed was the install path of the VST3. I updated the path settings in Native Access. The .vst3 was installed to my chosen location.

I am not sure that it has anything to do with the issue with the standalone version of Kontakt and do not know if Kontakt 7 standalone makes calls to the VST3 but I would like to add that the VST3 folder is a fixed folder on Windows and you are not supposed to change it as if it is not in play here then that can still lead to more issues down the line. (The common path in Windows is Windows/Program Files/Common Files/VST3 ).

Here is a link to the Steinberg forum where someone else asks for an explanation.

Had a few odd issues (with Windows)

If installing the VST3 where it is supposed to be followed by a reboot doesn't make it work better then perhaps you would like to share what were the 'odd issues' ?

I can also confirm that audio works in shared mode.

I can open Kontakt 7 from the desktop shortcut, and a sythesiser appears. I can load a sound bank. But, not only does it not respond to my midi keyboard, also its own GUI keyboard does not work.

Because of the discussion style above then it is rather hard to derive information , so what is it ? Are you saying that Kontak 7 standalone works if using audio in shared mode ? (presumably WASAPI Shared ?) and does the Kontakt 7 standalone GUI then work or what ?

stephen24

Oh dear I've upset you again I'm so sorry.

I guess I got a bit confused by things like

it doesn't actually work as as standalone VST in Windows 11.

and

'Ethereal Earth' says "AUDIO DRIVER NOT CONNECTED"

and in particular, immediately following

bearing in mind it is, and must be since none of this occurs if I use Kontakt inside my DAW.

it doesn't work

!!!

Wouldn't it be rather unusual for such an annoying bug never to have been been reported before? There are at least 372 reasons for getting no sound, and with a bit of detective work it can usually be sorted out. Simple checks you've no doubt already carried out include:

1. MIDI. Kontakt gives a visual indication on receiving a signal in the instrument header (DIN plug icon, extreme left). And there is a factory multiscript (KSP>Factory>Utilities>MIDI Monitor) which displays MIDI events as they arrive. (If they arrive). Best to use verbose mode.
2. Sound. When you expect sound, is there a reading in the level meter (top right of instrument header)? Outputs at the bottom? (If not, your settings within Kontakt need a tweak - you could try playing a sample in the Wave Editor - that should always sound.) Windows Volume Mixer (bottom R of screen in W10)?

My guess is that either you haven't set it up properly, or there are some adjustments that your DAW makes to the VST version that you haven't made here. Volume slider/knobs, Group Start Options, etc. If not, maybe a reinstal. Do let us know how you get on.

alan9990

Again - thank you to both of you! As of right now I'm going back through a complete re-installation in case I've missed something, or something got screwed up along the way.

@stephen24 you are quite correct here - there's not only no sound, but there's no visual or other indication of any incoming signal.

However, what I am going to do before coming back (if I need to) is firstly to complete this re-install. Second, I am going to install Kontakt 6 as well. Despite I didn't believe it to be necessary, and NI claim that it isn't, it was true that I had both installed under Windows 10… indeed, they were installed together through Native access - which effectively "pulled in" Kontakt 6 by itself.

So, although NI's own support site states that Kontakt is fully supported in Windows 11 since v6.7, I'm going to put both in. IF there's still an issue, I will certainly come back here and try harder to make my explanations clearer and less confusing 👍

alan9990

Latest:

No joy at all.

I thought I'd had an insight because I purchased Kontakt 7 as an upgrade to the free Kontakt 7 Player. I thought oh, maybe there's something I'm missing. But no, because there's only the application itself (Kontakt 7.exe) which it does in

C:\Program Files\Native Instruments\Kontakt 7

and the vst3 in

C:\Program Files\Common Files\VST3

I will note here that despite having set these paths specifically within Native Access options, it still insists on creating its own default file paths

C:\Program Files\Native Instruments\Kontakt 7\VSTPlugins 32 bit
C:\Program Files\Native Instruments\Kontakt 7\VSTPlugins 64 bit

I've checked and double checked… both with and without these paths set, and in no case is anything ever installed at either path. The vst3 goes to the expected location.

There's nothing else installed (not surprisingly).

I think that at this stage I need to contact both the manufacturer of my midi Keyboard (discountinued now, but the latest driver is Win 11 compatible, plus - I don't have this issue with any other virtual instruments), as well as NI themselves and double check that there's not something I've overlooked, or something peculiar to my version of Windows (generically, not personally!).

Having confused myself (!!) in my last reply, I had meant that the Native Access installer would pull in Kontakt 7 Player alongside Kontakt 7, and not 6! And of course Kontakt Player 7 (the free version) has now been replaced by the free Kontakt 8 Player. I did try this, but it made things worse not better.

So I feel genuinely stuck at this stage. To summarise:

I have a number of other virtual instruments, synthesisers etc. that work absolutely fine. Through this I infer that the paths from midi keyboard to Operating System, through audio input and output is working. I play a note - that note comes out of my speakers. Therefore, there is something peculiar to either Kontakt 7 or to Native Access that is somehow obstructing replay, and by virtue of the fact that it doesn't currently receive any input - and yes, I have been through each possible selection of ports, restarting each time.

PoorFellow

But no, because there's only the application itself (Kontakt 7.exe) which it does in <SNIP> and the vst3 in

I will note here that despite having set these paths specifically within Native Access options, it still insists on creating its own default file paths

C:\Program Files\Native Instruments\Kontakt 7\VSTPlugins 32 bit
C:\Program Files\Native Instruments\Kontakt 7\VSTPlugins 64 bit

I've checked and double checked… both with and without these paths set, and in no case is anything ever installed at either path. The vst3 goes to the expected location.

At the moment then N.I. has removed all the Kontakt 7 plug-in information from the shop page which is now Kontakt 8 page and have not given same information abut Kontakt 8. But the support page Kontakt 7 FAQ says :

Which plug-in formats are supported?
Kontakt 7 is available in the plug-in formats VST3, AU and AAX (64 bit). VST2 is not supported.

So there is really no VST(1) or VST2 and as far as I remember then Kontakt 7 is also only 64 Bit.

Your experience that "it still insists on creating its own default file path" to me suggests that that is somehow the result of you having been a bit too creative with your settings somewhere at some point. From the previous discussion here then you appear to know a lot about Windows and computers while at the same time being oblivious to the consequences that some times follows when/if you tinker things (sorry there were no more polite way I could think of expressing this). And IMO then it is possible that most all the problems here stems from you having been creative with settings. Either that or you might have a virus or malware.

The only thing that I can suggest is that you take a full image based drive backup using backup software, using e.g. something like this , then wipe drive , reinstall Windows from scratch and when having installed Windows and all HW drivers and you have checked that Windows is activated then take a new image based drive backup and only then start installing the Native Instruments software , all using default settings for everything other than Content location and Download location in Native Access which ought to be OK to set as you like (local drive destinations only and install path must be another or below in directory tree than set Download path)() That ought to work , but if you are unhappy with any of it then simply reload your backup of your present installation and go back to tinkering that .

Using backups, of especially working installations, is the way to go and it's always nice to have backups , especially if one is fond of digging into Windows settings where restore points does not always suffice. Of course it can be rather time consuming especially if working with mechanical hard drives rather than using e.g. NVME PCI-E SSD and SATA SSD. Anyway , it is also recommended that you keep at very least two latest backups for restore in case some problem sneaks in and you only finds out later.

stephen24

If you're not getting any signs of MIDI input, that does confirm your suggestion that there's an I/O problem with Kontakt.exe.

Are you absolutely sure that your selected MIDI port and channel matches that of your controller and the loaded instrument? There are 4 MIDI ports each with 16 channels. Have you tried the MIDI Monitor multiscript, which can register input from all or any port or channel?

(I thought Kontakt in your DAW was working perfectly?)

alan9990

Again, thank you both for persisting with this - this is not simply encouraging but also very helpful. As with any problem that the human mind encounters, it can be too easy to get bogged down in details and forget the bigger picture. So, very helpful to be reminded of context!

@stephen24 I did use that script yes. In fact it's only through this post that I've even dug into Kontakt in this way, having tended to just "install and use". Very cool it has these useful features. I can confirm that Kontakt recognises the three inputs from my controller, and which exist as such by virtue of the device firmware and its USB driver. I have tried all combinations of port numbers, assigned to each of the three inputs, and the Kontakt settings are to receive "all", which is a superset of inputs covering every available channel (if that's a good term to use).

And yes, @PoorFellow "creative with settings" isn't rude. In fact I don't interfere with Windows installations generally, I let them do what they wish and click "agree" - for this precise reason. But, two things that are possibly pertinent as this problem persists: First is that this Windows 11 was an "upgrade" provided by Microsoft. I do not have a complete system image to install. And as such, I know that the installer interrogated certain of the existing settings and configs, and installed "over the top". It would be/is a massive pain to think about a complete reinstall, even while I completely understand the use of having a disc image to restore. It may come to that. But, what I think I'm going to do first is a complete uninstall of everything NI and then start again. Why? Because I thought I had done this yesterday. I removed Kontakt 7, Native Access, Native Daemon all via the proper uninstaller. I then deleted every single folder and file relating to "Native Access" including those in %username/appdata and such places. And yet, when I reinstalled Native Access, it didn't even require me to sign in! So, clearly I hadn't removed all traces.

I contacted the support team for my DAW, who are very helpful and respond quickly. They said they've not encountered any such reports before, so I'm saying this must be peculiar to my system here. And again, since I can use my midi keyboard with other virtual instruments, this isn't a system-wide issue but one relating to Kontakt.

Will get busy, and report back.

stephen24

It's occurred to me that Kontakt doesn't work at all if there is no working audio output. So this could account for lack of response to MIDI input. It would also be backed up by the error reports from Ethereal Earth. It looks as though this is where your problem lies.