Which DAW....... Again ?

V84x4

I know this is like beating a dead horse………but hold on

First off I am coming from Standalone Keyboard and MPC (I'm not a beat maker)
I use my Dawless equipment for Sequencing and building 4 & 8-bar groups
Then put them together for a complete song.

I just purchased the S61 MK3 because I wanted a quality MIDI controller!
But I did not know the MK3 would drag me down a rabbit hole!!!!

My original intention was to use an iPad connected to the MK3 and port the Kontact sounds through my MPC for Sequencing, but I found out quickly that this is not possible at this time.
or at least I cant figure it out !!

So here I am…
I love the sounds from Ni more than
the sounds from my Standalone products.

I have downloaded Ableton, FL Studio, and Bitwig so far
and so far, I find that Bitwig is the fastest and easiest to learn (IMO)
Also, the integration with Bitwig and my new MK3 was super simple without having to
watch a bunch of YouTube videos on how to make the transport controls and Kontact work
within Bitwig….

If I'm going to start using a DAW full time then My questions are as follows:

#1
Does Ni Kontact work on the latest M4 iPad ?

#2
If not, do you feel that Bitwig is and will be the best future-proof DAW?
If yes Why?

#3
Does anyone here use their DAW in a Live stage setting?
if yes, which one and do you use the DAW to pring up Sets from a playlist

Again I know that the question of "Which Daw" has been beaten to death
so I apologize in advance…..please be kind

best regards, Rick

Paul B

do you feel that Bitwig is and will be the best future-proof DAW?

I can't help with most of your questions, but my advice on this part is: don't concern yourself with that. The answer, in my experience, is ‘Maybe yes, maybe no’.

I thought Ableton Live was this. Then along came Bitwig, and I was seduced by the shiny new toy. Almost. It had a lot to recommend it and seemed like it would develop faster than Live and eventually overtake it. The promise of The Grid was monumental. What kept me from switching was that it wasn't quite ready, and I had certain ways of working in Live that did not operate the same in Bitwig and this slowed me down. I could learn the new way, but it wasn't worth it. Yet. Then The Grid appeared and was much less than had been promised (it subsequently improved, but the initial release was not what I thought it was going to be). I resolved to watch Bitwig still, but in the meantime Live added features I'd wanted for years, and ones I hadn't known I wanted. And I got more Max4Live devices. By the time Bitwig seemed to be finally fulfilling its original promise, Live was no longer falling behind (in my opinion) and I couldn't imagine having to replicate what I get from Max4Live devices in Bitwig (even if it is possible).

So now I'm 'stuck' with Live. And happy about it. Because I no longer think about ‘is there a better DAW I should be using instead? One that will always be on the forefront of whatever makes a DAW the best there is.’

Choose the DAW that most appeals to you. That you get along with intuitively. That makes sense to your way of thinking.

so far, I find that Bitwig is the fastest and easiest to learn (IMO)

Also, the integration with Bitwig and my new MK3 was super simple…

You may have your answer there.

DunedinDragon

I've been through a TON of different DAWs over the years, but once I decided I needed a DAW for live performances I settled on Ableton and haven't regretted it. Ableton was designed with live performances in mind and that's why they provide two different views of a project. I construct my basic project in Arrangement View. When I have all the various instruments where I want them I convert them over to Session View because that greatly simplifies the live execution of the tracks

However I was not a novice when took this on and it still took me a while to get comfortable with all the various tools and how I wanted to use them. It's simple, but powerful and makes sense once you understand it, but there is a significant learning curve.

But I will say simple is not always best. You need a certain amount of tools and capabilities to get the results you have in your mind. For myself using Native Instruments was a MAJOR part of my decision to go to Ableton because they fit very well with how I put these project together and they're alway great sounding and versatile. That allows me to get the precise feel for what I want in a song whether it's simple with just a bass, drum and keyboard or grander with string and woodwind sections and/or multi-layer cinematic libraries.

NOTHING is future proof. There are just variations on what aspects a company might choose to follow. Ableton is definitely not the easiest road. However the amount of training videos on YouTube are an incredible resource for getting comfortable with it. And a great resource for figuring out how to do things. In my mind that's far more future proofing than some new innovative approach that has little support from certified trainers like Ableton has.

JesterMgee

I would say personally if you have no invested interests in specific hardware that requires a specific DAW (like a control surface like Ableton Push that keeps you in that environment) then first thing as you have done is to download demos and see which one feels best for you. You seem to like Bitwig so start with that as the first point.

Next you want to check via maybe some research how it works with hardware controllers, keyboards and control surfaces. Every DAW will support a MIDI keyboard but things like Komplete Kontrol have scripts that can actually integrate the keyboard with the DAW for extra functionality so check and see if this is supported if you want that, or what you will miss if it is not.

Next have a look at what kinds of sounds/effects the DAW will offer as a standard. Ableton for instance (which I use mostly) actually has a really good basic set of effects built in which can solve the need for too many effects plugins. It also has the option in Suite for a load of useful sounds if you don't mind the small GUI of the instruments in the bar or the ability to integrate with Komplete Kontrol.

Lastly check how flexible it will be to add tracks, rout MIDI and Audio within the DAW and how easy it is to record and edit automation, all things DAWs will offer but some will seem more intuitive and straight forward.

It's not uncommon for most to go through a few DAWs in their lifetime or even to use multiples for different tasks. Each DAW has strengths and weaknesses so don't feel you have to stick to 1. I personally like to use Ableton, Reaper and use to use Cubase years ago too (switched to Reaper for mostly tracking vocals and more linear work but don't do that much). I have also used everything from old school trackers like Fast tracker, Scream Tracker, Buzz Tracker to Fruity Loops (before it was FLS), Reason before deciding Ableton was how I liked to work mostly because of the clip view being great to get started. THis was well before Bitwig was a thing so likely I would have chosen that if it was available at the time but I now have Push and KK which I have nicely setup with Ableton.

Paul B

do you feel that Bitwig is and will be the best future-proof DAW?

I can't help with most of your questions, but my advice on this part is: don't concern yourself with that. The answer, in my experience, is ‘Maybe yes, maybe no’.

I thought Ableton Live was this. Then along came Bitwig, and I was seduced by the shiny new toy. Almost. It had a lot to recommend it and seemed like it would develop faster than Live and eventually overtake it. The promise of The Grid was monumental. What kept me from switching was that it wasn't quite ready, and I had certain ways of working in Live that did not operate the same in Bitwig and this slowed me down. I could learn the new way, but it wasn't worth it. Yet. Then The Grid appeared and was much less than had been promised (it subsequently improved, but the initial release was not what I thought it was going to be). I resolved to watch Bitwig still, but in the meantime Live added features I'd wanted for years, and ones I hadn't known I wanted. And I got more Max4Live devices. By the time Bitwig seemed to be finally fulfilling its original promise, Live was no longer falling behind (in my opinion) and I couldn't imagine having to replicate what I get from Max4Live devices in Bitwig (even if it is possible).

So now I'm 'stuck' with Live. And happy about it. Because I no longer think about ‘is there a better DAW I should be using instead? One that will always be on the forefront of whatever makes a DAW the best there is.’

Choose the DAW that most appeals to you. That you get along with intuitively. That makes sense to your way of thinking.

so far, I find that Bitwig is the fastest and easiest to learn (IMO)

Also, the integration with Bitwig and my new MK3 was super simple…

You may have your answer there.

DunedinDragon

I've been through a TON of different DAWs over the years, but once I decided I needed a DAW for live performances I settled on Ableton and haven't regretted it. Ableton was designed with live performances in mind and that's why they provide two different views of a project. I construct my basic project in Arrangement View. When I have all the various instruments where I want them I convert them over to Session View because that greatly simplifies the live execution of the tracks

However I was not a novice when took this on and it still took me a while to get comfortable with all the various tools and how I wanted to use them. It's simple, but powerful and makes sense once you understand it, but there is a significant learning curve.

But I will say simple is not always best. You need a certain amount of tools and capabilities to get the results you have in your mind. For myself using Native Instruments was a MAJOR part of my decision to go to Ableton because they fit very well with how I put these project together and they're alway great sounding and versatile. That allows me to get the precise feel for what I want in a song whether it's simple with just a bass, drum and keyboard or grander with string and woodwind sections and/or multi-layer cinematic libraries.

NOTHING is future proof. There are just variations on what aspects a company might choose to follow. Ableton is definitely not the easiest road. However the amount of training videos on YouTube are an incredible resource for getting comfortable with it. And a great resource for figuring out how to do things. In my mind that's far more future proofing than some new innovative approach that has little support from certified trainers like Ableton has.

JesterMgee

I would say personally if you have no invested interests in specific hardware that requires a specific DAW (like a control surface like Ableton Push that keeps you in that environment) then first thing as you have done is to download demos and see which one feels best for you. You seem to like Bitwig so start with that as the first point.

Next you want to check via maybe some research how it works with hardware controllers, keyboards and control surfaces. Every DAW will support a MIDI keyboard but things like Komplete Kontrol have scripts that can actually integrate the keyboard with the DAW for extra functionality so check and see if this is supported if you want that, or what you will miss if it is not.

Next have a look at what kinds of sounds/effects the DAW will offer as a standard. Ableton for instance (which I use mostly) actually has a really good basic set of effects built in which can solve the need for too many effects plugins. It also has the option in Suite for a load of useful sounds if you don't mind the small GUI of the instruments in the bar or the ability to integrate with Komplete Kontrol.

Lastly check how flexible it will be to add tracks, rout MIDI and Audio within the DAW and how easy it is to record and edit automation, all things DAWs will offer but some will seem more intuitive and straight forward.

It's not uncommon for most to go through a few DAWs in their lifetime or even to use multiples for different tasks. Each DAW has strengths and weaknesses so don't feel you have to stick to 1. I personally like to use Ableton, Reaper and use to use Cubase years ago too (switched to Reaper for mostly tracking vocals and more linear work but don't do that much). I have also used everything from old school trackers like Fast tracker, Scream Tracker, Buzz Tracker to Fruity Loops (before it was FLS), Reason before deciding Ableton was how I liked to work mostly because of the clip view being great to get started. THis was well before Bitwig was a thing so likely I would have chosen that if it was available at the time but I now have Push and KK which I have nicely setup with Ableton.

Kymeia

No way to answer questions about being ‘future proof’ but for me Bitwig is the host that has the deepest integration with Kontrol keyboards. That because it not only has native integration but also an extension called DrivenbyMoss that vastly improves on the native integration. Some other hosts also have a MOSS extension (Cubase and Reaper) but in my view Bitwig outshines those because the built in Remote Controls editor makes it so simple to create controller mappings that apply just as well to native devices and plugins, can work on a per device or per preset level, and don’t require use of Komplete Kontrol or MIDI learn. Also any params mapped using remote controls are visualised on the computer screen in a HUD and if you use MOSS also in the Kontrol keyboard screen. Plus there is a huge library of ready mapped devices that ship with Bitwig plus even more created by the Bitwig community. So you get good control over both the DAW and devices, for me only Ableton comes close to that, then probably Reaper and Cubase.