Kontrol MK3 DAW Control
I have many gripes with the Kontrol MK3, but the among the worst decisions made by NI is forcing users to move through DAW tracks with individual rotary data wheel clicks (i.e. push the wheel to the side until it clicks). It is abosolutely mind boggling to me to have a design which necessitates moving through tracks one at a time, especially since the MK2 used the more logical option of selecting tracks with the buttons above each track (now designated for mute). The “add insult to injury” part is that the data wheel is an endless encoder, so why can’t I just turn the wheel to cycle through tracks more quickly…maybe use the shift knob to move 5 at a time. Instead, the data wheel randomly increments volume, which is already controlled by the 8 knobs under the tracks (albeit also randomly, so both are useless!). It’s these decisions that lead me to believe no one at NI actually uses or cares about these products. I am reminded of one of their first demo videos where the product specialist admitted he never used his MK2. Anyways, the MK3 is useless for DAW control if you really need to depend on it imo. I worked with it for four hours today, and I am really on the fence of selling it for an MPC Key 61 which would let me load all my Maschine expansions; have wireless DAW control; have better midi capabilities; and include all the basic plugins stand alone. Are any other MK3 owners actually navigating tracks this way?
Comments
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I feel like we've already beat this horse quite thoroughly. Is there some new aspect you would like to highlight…maybe something we haven't considered yet?
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Personally I use a small bluetooth keyboard and trackball mouse that sits on my S88MK3 for navigation and other quick duties with the arrow keys and DAW control actions, so I'm not really dependent on the S88 for such things.
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Doesn’t change the fact that it is a bad design. NI has stated this keyboard has “deep” DAW control when, in fact, it really only manages to execute transport controls on certain DAWs. Not really in line with the advertised value add.
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Lots of people have issues with some of the design decisions after being reasonably happy for some time until things have just changed unannounced. The reason you find things are "beaten to death" is because there have been a number of very unfavourable decisions made and it upsets people that have enjoyed working in a certain way for many years or expected improvements to existing workflows, not complete changes.
We are all free to express this concern even if it has to be expressed over and over to get the point across. The fact it is being expressed rather constantly by many to the point it is so noticable should be enough to raise an eyebrow and people shouldn't be chastised just because they want to express dislike/frustration to something.
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Precisely one of the many reasons I'm glad I didn't rush out to replace my MK2 keyboard. Having usable DAW control and assignable midi options on a controller keyboard should be a fundamental requirement out of the box and not have to wait for it to arrive sometime down the line when the manufacturer sees fit to release these basic features. 6 months on and still no sign.
According to NI the reason they dropped any kind of compatibility with their own Maschine software and the MK3 s series was because their research showed not many customers used the previous models with Maschine. Was that same thought process also applied to DAW control and assignable midi?
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The usage data excuse is miserably lazy. I suppose my usage data would should I never use DAW control anymore because it is so terribly implemented that I can’t even if I wanted to. And because I can’t control my DAW I am not likely to use the keyboard at all, so where does that leave us. I suppose NI should just kill this thing off entirely since usage data is going to show few people use it. It’s so silly. In NI’s defense, I never heard them use that excuse for DAW control. Instead, they just kept repeating that the MK3 offered “deep” DAW integration if I remember correctly. I assumed wrongly that meant better than the MK2.
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I get you. But I was referring specifically to the OP who has, in recent memory, really beaten up this issue more than many. If my memory is not clear on that, then I'll apologize. But it felt spammy to me. That's not an insult; it's just my honest feeling.
@DunedinDragon, exhibiting a "can do" attitude, at least tried to offer him a workable alternative. We should all respect that, and we should all try to do the same.
But then OP went right back to "bad design". It's like he didn't even consider Dunedin's suggestion. And then you threw down with OP.
I remind everybody that due to Native Instruments' statements on the issue, the OP's complaint is the singular point that NOBODY CAN DO ANYTHING ABOUT, and that includes Native Instruments.
It's not in the cards, and it ain't gonna happen.
I suggest that it's time we try our best to move forward. Let's not make perfect be the enemy of good. And I appreciate the Dragon's input on this matter.
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Well, the OP has a point. When something is changed for the (seemingly) worse and users who speak up about it are ignored it can make you very angry about things. It is quite clear who has used KK for years in-depth and who has either only used it in a basic sense or not at all until MK3. I have no idea how many times the OP has bought up this same issue in threads, I don't read everything here, I rarely drop in but seems his point on the matter is valid.
There is no disrespect in the solution offered that I see other than he didn't offer a thanks, but not the point..., It wouldn't be something I would want to do as a solution either and I can 100% sympathise with the OP on the issue as it does not make sense why it would even work that way when it was just fine as it was. People get annoyed especially if there isn't a clear reason for it.
This is not about making things work "perfect", these points are about how small decisions and changes without consideration can really affect some users out there and we have all been hoping for new updates and changes but there have simply been TOO MANY changes that affect things differently to cope with, it's basically a completely different workflow in almost every sense and many argue, not for the better.
You don't need to remind people on the forums how we should be behaving or trying to suggest we shouldn't post about issues like this and "move on"! Moderators here do a great job of this so we don't need more chefs in the kitchen trying to run the narrative. While we should of course try and be positive and keep feedback without the feelings, a task sometimes rather difficult given the changes we are expected to just accept, I feel that people SHOULD feel free to post their gripes and frustrations about these changes because it is the only way to make it clear how unpopular some things are.
Maybe something is a bug or an oversight, maybe it triggers others to also agree it's an issue. If people don't speak up, nothing will happen, likely nothing happens when we do either but at least we know it cannot be quoted as "well no one said it was an issue". The only problem is the number of people it would actually take to make any difference. Beyond reporting of bugs I don't think user feedback has ever really achieved anything to date sadly.
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Let me offer some context and thanks for understanding. NI is a brand I hold in high regard given their history of pioneering software synthesizers. I remember way back when Trent Reznor was using Reaktor on the early NIN albums and getting sounds no one had heard before….even running his guitar through it. NIs software instruments were always different in a good way. To this day Guitar Rig is the single best guitar platform for direct recording and it hasn’t been significantly modified since GR5, which is a testament to how far ahead NI was of the competition. And, when I started my musical journey NI was again pioneering hardware control for these amazing software instruments they had created. Having pre-mapped hardware was a HUGE selling point for me back then because midi was still very poorly implemented in the industry. NI had cracked the code. Their product offerings were bar none best in class in most areas…just look at Battery 4. Hasn’t been touched in almost a decade, and still probably the best software sampler to be had. The Company is currently on a bad path imo, having been bought by a private equity company that it appears is not too interested in investing in anything but the bare minimum (actually below bare minimum) to maintain the NI legacy. They laid off 20% of their workforce and have hired product managers with little to no background in making music with these products. It is beyond disappointing. My hope is they take the criticisms to heart and do better. I don’t work there so have no idea what that looks like, but the current status quo of innovating based on usage statistics and releasing products without basic controls is simply not something I can stay silent about. The Kontrol MK3 is a midi controller. It should never have been sold without midi templates and to say it has “deep” DAW control is embarrassing for NI. All this to say that I would like to give NI the benefit of the doubt the announced updates will solve the poor functionality of the MK3, but it is on NI to run that to ground. It is simply not functional at the moment for anyone that was using an MK2 to its full potential.
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