Did Arachnaut complete (or share) "rb macros 5c" samplers

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In Arachnauts posts of the "rb macro" series he mentions rb 5c samplers.

This would be so valuable! Did he ever release or share this with any of you from the Reaktor Builders group?

Here's to hoping...

-Paul

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to be more specific:

In Arachnaut's descriptions of the User Library entries for his "rb macro" series, he mentions a 3rd entry in the "rb Macro 5" series; rb Macro 5c: Samplers. But it looks like it was never posted.

Many of you who have been on the site a while know Arachnaut and have even collaborated with him.

It sounds like he has left the site (which if true is a very big loss!).

Did the "rb Macro 5c: Samplers" leave with him, or did he share or pass any of his works on?

It would be a shame to think this and other valuable unfinished works of his would be lost to the community forever...

arachnaut

I can't find this. I'll keep looking.

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Hi @arachnaut!

Good to hear from you!

Thanks for looking! And lets hope it is in one of the few dozen multi-Terabyte HD's you have lying around!

I am building a Sampler that will have as many "modern" features as possible, such as loop crossfading and loop ping-pong playback. (Mostly this means reworking/re-coding existing works)

The stock Library "Loop Sampler" is more sophisticated than any other Sampler I've found so far, but it is a monstrosity of coding errors, coded by someone without any regard to "ease of future use", and completed without ever having been de-bugged or updated. I was hoping to find someone who has expanded on the basic Sample Playback concept, and added additional features, and your reference to "rb Macro 5c: Samplers" made me hopeful.

Loop Crossfading seems to be a particular challenge. While it's become standard in most newer (Non-Reaktor) Samplers, it seems missing from Reaktor's toolbox. As useful a feature as this is, I am surprised that no-one has tackled it to date! (If it exists, please let me know - my search of hundreds of User Library devices has come up dry so far).

Here's to progress!

And good to know you are active on the Forum!

-Paul

KoaN

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/143379#Comment_143379

For loop crossfading you need to add a second sampler with the region prior to the loop section...so before the first sampler loops back you fade it out while fading in the region prior to the loop avoiding the click and if it matches perfectly you restart the first sampler with no click.

One another thing i would do is have a first sampler play a loop and a second one playing the same loop but delayed a few beats before or after the first one...when the first sampler gets near the click i fade out and fade in the second one and when the second one gets near its click i fade out and fade in back to the first one....it alternates from one sampler to the other avoiding click at the loop point.The problem with that is it changes your loop,you get like a different type of rythm,melodies but it works well and is interesting.You can also adjust the fades to be long or short...changing the texture of the sample.Works well with drones.

Not sure what you had in mind for loop crossfading but i thought of mentionning these ideas.

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Thanks @KoaN!

The loop crossfade feature is under development now. Not to say I won't need a hand with the coding, but I got a few coding tips yesterday from an experienced coder and am working on it.

I see from the Reaktor (Factory) Library that "Loop Sampler" does the same thing, creating a second audio stream from the same sample. It just does it with very obtuse coding (to me) and it is buggy (the GUI is often but not always displaying inaccurate playhead display data when the crossfade is engaged).

I do get the concept - just need to execute it in a way where there will be no time distortion, meaning that even a rhythmic sample will loop accurately when the loop crossfade is engaged.

Thanks for your input! I may ask you for help if I get stuck.

malte101

Toybox samplers have the click free crossfade loop feature build in…

colB

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/143379#Comment_143379

 "it seems missing from Reaktor's toolbox. As useful a feature as this is, I am surprised that no-one has tackled it to date!"

It is "missing" from Reaktors library, because it is not a 'one size fits all' type of thing. There are so many considerations that it makes much more sense to scratch build it to fit the feature set of the project.

It's not a difficult thing to implement, but it is difficult to understand the subtleties, and those change depending on the context, so not a good fit for a standard library feature.

Some details to illustrate what I mean:——————————————————————————

Lets say you have a sample player and you want user controllable loop points.

You want cross fading to avoid the subtle but audible artefacts from a fade-in/fade-out approach.

This should be easy enough right. Just have two playback modules targeting the same sample, while one is playing, the other waits until the playing one reaches 'fade-length' before the loop-end, then the waiting one starts to fade in from 'fade-length' before loop-start and the playing one starts to fade out. Once the fades are completed, the waiting one becomes playing and playing becomes waiting. It's a juggle, but it's pretty simple really.

So that should just work right? Much of the time it will…

But it's not that simple. What if the audio has lots of transients, and the user sets up the loop so it starts just after a transient… oops, now the fade in will catch the end of that transient. No worries, just make the fade length shorter… but then when it gets really short, you start to get fading artefacts… so that's not ideal.

OK, maybe a different approach. Instead of starting the fade in just before the loop start, make the fade out after the end, and the fade in start bang on loop start… but now you are catching sound from after the end of the loop which can have similar problems….

OK then maybe we fade in from the start of the loop and fade out to the end, now playback only comes from inside the loop, but now we are mushing up the start and the end of the loop, both will lose clarity, so there better not be any important sound at either point… hmmm.

For some things all of those will work, for others, only one will work well, for some maybe none will be any good, in which case, a fade-in/fade-out option might be better, but that has similar problems…

OK, so lets just externalise controls to allow the user to choose pass on the problem. But in that case, there are suddenly a whole bunch of complex controls that don't make intuitive sense, so will involve guesswork from many users, and will make your sampler seem messy and difficult to use, and many folk will experience difficulty setting up looping… hmmm.

What about using a nearest zero crossing thing within a range…? or matching amplitudes and using a very short fade-in/fade-out?

It's even more complex for granular style playback, but maybe easier to resolve in some ways.

The implementation really is not difficult, but the design considerations and associated compromises can mess with your sanity :)

The reality is that for guaranteed seamless looping, it's better to build it into the sound itself and include loop points, then make a player that can read and use those loop points.

KoaN

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/144353#Comment_144353

I think the best way would be to do it the way you have in some audio editors,back in the day i used Wavelab,now i use Soundop.

You set your loop points and make sure you have some sample previous to the start of the loop "too short can cause problems" and then adjust the crossfade length which will fade in the previous part before the start of the loop and fade out the end of the loop and then restart the whole process.

Also nice if you see visually what happens,in these audio editors when you adjust the length of the crossfade you see it added to the wave,a layer of different color. Might be hard to do in Reaktor though but this way you understand the previous part of the loop is being added to the end.I think this is the most useful way. But if you have a loop with no data prior to the loop it won't work.

colB

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/144375#Comment_144375

There was an attempt to do the visual feedback in the Factory sample looper thing, but it is really buggy. It shouldn't be particularly difficult to do really, but it's somewhat pointless without a zooming display, which is also doable, but more difficult to do well.

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@colB and @KoaN - Thanks for both of your posts!

Yes, @colB, I get your point entirely. There will not be a "one size fits all solution", and the problems/pitfalls of the options you outlined are all possible reasons why one solution might be capable of doing a great job with one sample and do quite poorly with another. It would require some discretion with sample choices, or at least loop point choices - not to "tax" the chosen fade option's capabilities.

And yes, I agree @KoaN that a Sample Editor is the ultimate way to tailor a particular sample to perfection, when that level of detail is needed. I am hoping to land on a Loop Fade option that is capable enough to be "usable" in most cases.

I am plugging away - and learning quite a lot in the process. Just also fishing for input on examples (if they exist) to use as a reference point.

Thanks so much!