KK3: let's talk about Preset Edit and View improvements

Matthew_NI
Matthew_NI Product Team Posts: 684 mod

This thread is intended to discuss Preset Edit and View Capabilities - which is one of the next topics we're focused on.

So far, the list of things I'm aware need to be addressed includes:

  • The ability to delete user presets from within Komplete Kontrol
  • The ability to edit properties for user presets 
  • The ability to edit properties and tags for multiple presets at once
  • The ability to view and browse by Sub Bank

I believe those four items are by popular request, and considered regressions over KK 2.9.

What I want to ensure is that we understand fully. Is there anything else you would like to either add to the list, or clarify about the list?

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Comments

  • Matthew_NI
    Matthew_NI Product Team Posts: 684 mod

    @JesterMgee @Kymeia @Vagus and anyone else interested.

    Apologies for the duplicative posting - just want to make sure the discussion can happen, now that it has some focus.

    Since I'm getting the requirements together, I figured it would be a good time to bring this to the forefront.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,482 Expert
    edited January 5

    Thanks Matthew. First I should refer you to the feedback here because quite a lot of this is covered there:

    • The ability to delete user presets from within Komplete Kontrol
    • The ability to edit properties for user presets 
    • The ability to edit properties and tags for multiple presets at once
    • The ability to view and browse by Sub Bank

    Yes these are all 'regressions' except that it is actually still possible to edit tags for multiple presets at once, just not properties

    In relation to editing properties I think I speak for everyone who does NKS editing when I say ideally we don't just want to go back to what we had before but to see huge improvements in NKS editing, including of properties, which means opening up fields like 'Bank' and 'sub bank' that were inexplicably greyed out in the KK2x (although most of us know various ways to 'hack' that which kindof makes hiding it from users moot anyway but it would be better if it was just available for all). To be honest since NI now have NKS2 I think NKS1 creation should just be opened up completely.

    I think the NKS editor interface needs a lot of work. Firstly another regression is in KK3 it's hidden behind an extra click (you don't just have to click on the i but also then go to the top of the screen to click the edit button - that could all be one thing as it was in KK 2x) - it all feels a bit hidden away and deprioritsed

    In terms of improving the NKS editor the biggest improvement and one that has been long requested would be to be able to add new user pages at any point in a mapped template and move them around freely (drag and drop) - you used to be able to do that in Kore 2 and can in Bitwig's fantastic device mapping editor, and it meant mapped templates could be updated (eg if the plugin gets new features like an extra filter) without having to redo the whole thing, plus it would just make the whole process of NKS editing much more fun. Look at Bitwig's editor to see how this would be so much better.

    Then also being able to apply a mapping to a whole batch of NKS patches or just on a device level all at once would be fantastic

    Built in generation of NKS resources like previews and thumbnails would also speed up the editing process

    Adding preset import for at least the basic VST3 preset (.vstpresets) would also help - you can't even see them in Plugin alliance plugins even though NI now own them.

  • Vagus
    Vagus Member Posts: 393 Pro
    edited January 5

    I would second all of @Kymeia 's points above. Additional suggestion

    The Ability to select from a menu of parameters, rather than one width limited, scrolling page

    When selecting the parameter in the dropdown menu for each knob, instead of one page limited by arbitrary width, could this be extended in width and height, so we can see all available parameters to map, rather than having to scroll down endlessly for each knob, one after the other? It could still be table based, but rather show an awful lot more, to allow us to move the ouse across columns and select more quickly.

    The ability to assign the touch strip as part of the parameter map

    This will become incredibly important for a couple of reasons:

    1. I believe you've already mentioned this might be really useful for physical models if they can be implemented as a function in future (I can bow a violin with my touche - but sometimes, the same keyboard is easier).
    2. When you do the next Maschine hardware update, I would imagine it will have a touch strip - this would be foward thinking to Q3 (or whenever) you release the next hardware SKUs. It would also mean Maschine software would benefit from some of the advances of KK, without some of the less positive feedback from the KK community.

    The ability to copy and move mapping pages

    This just saves a lot of time!

    @Matthew_NI Thanks for asking the question - really appreciated. One bit of positive feedback, as Kymeia has said, is that we can edit tags en masse - and it's MUCH faster than 2.9 or Maschine.

  • Matthew_NI
    Matthew_NI Product Team Posts: 684 mod

    I believe Touch Strip assignation will live as part of the MIDI Template editing, once shipped.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,466 Expert

    Honestly, just look back at V2 of KK and set a minimum of function to match what WAS possible as a start, then build from that in future. If it is possible to do in V2 (like basically everything you have listed), it should also be possible in V3. Almost like asking how to best design something to move an object, whilst sitting in a wheelbarrow... Improvements would be great but I feel we need to get back to step 1 first before overwhelming the devs with too many considerations.

  • NeilAS
    NeilAS Member Posts: 2 Member

    Please can we have scaleable user interface text. It's tiny on a 4-K monitor & my eyesight is not quite what it used to be.

    Thank You

    Neil

  • Lucian89
    Lucian89 Member Posts: 5 Member

    Make it " komplete " and let us add a second instrument to make the perfect musical weapon once and for all.

  • Tana Fiacek
    Tana Fiacek Member Posts: 2 Member

    Multiple favourites groups. We can name them and make own sets e.g. House, movie, trap. With collector edition it’s must have.

  • overlord25
    overlord25 Member Posts: 17 Member

    I would agree with everything mentioned, however I would request that when considering any possible implementation, that devs will also consider the implications of making things equally accessible and achievable with the forthcoming accessibility helper for blind users.


    I appreciate that it's early days of course, but I am concerned that once again accessibility may end up just bing a bolt on with limitations that could be avoided if greater thought had been given at these prilimary stages.


    The blind community is indebted to the NKS preset creation work from many of the users in this thread, however most have a strong desire to be able to achieve this independently, so any coding mechanisms that could assist us with reaching this goal will be appreciated.

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,482 Expert

    The blind community is indebted to the NKS preset creation work from many of the users in this thread, however most have a strong desire to be able to achieve this independently, so any coding mechanisms that could assist us with reaching this goal will be appreciated.

    Absolutely, NKS editing and authoring needs to be completely accessible. This is one reason why the whole process needs to be opened up, no longer having some parts available to users but other parts (as with bank name editing and bank creation) a closed wall that only NI and NKS partners can access. I accept that NKS2 creation may well be beyond the average user, but this is why there is a stronger case for making NKS1 creation tools completely available to all (including things like preview and resource creation).

  • Sunborn
    Sunborn Member Posts: 2,163 Expert
    edited January 14

    If i may add something, i would like to see more friendly navigation when we create NKS.

    For example:

    • Keyboard commands when we right-click on knobs, in order to cut, copy, paste them etc. Maschine has the cut option.
    • The ability to open an explorer window when we perform "save" or "save as" for a preset. It will speed up the process 10 times or more when we want to save non-migrated VST's from VST2 to VST3, instead of remaking them, because we will simply click and replace the older file.
    • The ability of Komplete Kontrol to "auto-match" each new preset name we're about to save, with the current VST preset name. Right now, when we save a "Sine Sub Bass", and then we go to next preset which is a "Double Saw Lead" and try to save it, Komplete Kontrol keeps the previous name. Because of this, we have to write down every single preset name, manually one by one, which is annoying and make our hand get tired quickly.

    Those small additions will speed up the process a lot, and it will give us a feeling of pleasure too... because to be honest, while i really enjoy creating master templates or graphics, when it comes to presets, sometimes i feel that i am doing a chore... or some bureaucratic logistics... :-)

  • Xeuric
    Xeuric Member Posts: 1 Member

    in addition to what you’ve already mentioned, one of the crucial issues that needs to be addressed is providing more accessible dialogue boxes with more detailed information. A lot of the times, being a totally blind user who relies on a screen reader, it is next to impossible for me to navigate the KOMPLETEKONTROOL, interface and load the plug-ins, because the screen reader simply is not tagged to provide a smooth workflow in order to access the settings that need to be accessed in order to enable all features and functions. this is especially crucial to the preferences option.

  • MuskyBanana
    MuskyBanana Member Posts: 2 Member

    Are you guys going to address the fact that you can't edit the Templates in KK3 with MK3 keyboards? Replaced an MK2 with an MK3 and the basic functionality that was once there isn't any more.

  • Gina Fant-Simon
    Gina Fant-Simon Member Posts: 4 Member

    Twice I have installed the new upgrade and twice I had to download the previous version and reinstall. - it seems with Pro Tools, the new version is not backwards compatible. All of my sessions use KK and none open and play the new version… I am excited to try it but need access to sessions not using it.

  • randybobandy
    randybobandy Member Posts: 4 Member

    Hi Matthew

    1. I miss not having the browser and various banks on the same page as the instrument. In KK 2 you could stay on the instrument pages and quickly audition other presets. Now you have to click back to the browser find a preset, load it and then back to the instrument page.
    2. Is there a way to display the keyboard in Default view? As many instruments we use have complex key layouts, I often like it displayed visually. Currently to do so I have to enable edit view, hide Kontakt sidebar and resize. If there is a way to have Default view plus keyboard that would be really great.
    3. Not sure how easy this is and also applies to Kontakt, but vector graphics across the board would be great as all the text, icons and images are quite pixelated. The new KK3 browser section seems to have much cleaner text and looks very nice.
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