Keyboard Display: "You're low on power. Please connect a USB-C power supply"

DnsQn
DnsQn Member Posts: 5 Newcomer

Does anyone have the solution for my problem?

I'm trying to connect my brand new S88 MK3 keyboard on my computer.

Although I have connected an A USB-C power supply with 5V, 10W and 2A with its own USB-C cable, I only get the message that the power is too low. That's all I get on the S88 MK3, the end.

The host connection is direct, i.e. not connected via a hub with A USB-C female to USB-A male adapter/cable. I have tried several USB ports on the PC, no success.

My PC:

INTEL Core i9-10850K 10x3600MHz 20MB

Motherboard Gigabyte Z590-Gaming X with Z590 chipset/6x SATA/3x M.2 x4/RAID 0,1,5,10/6x USB2.0/7x USB3.2 Gen1/

64 GB Crucial Dual Channel DDR4 RAM

2 GB Zotac Geforce GT 710 passively cooled dual-head PCIe graphics card (VGA/DVI-D/HDMI)

Microsoft Windows 10 Professional 64Bit

I wish everybody a happy new year

Dns

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Best Answer

  • PK The DJ
    PK The DJ Member Posts: 845 Guru
    Answer ✓

    This might sound obvious, but if you're using a 10W 2A PSU and the message says there isn't enough power, try a higher wattage PSU.

    In the spec for these keyboards, NI only specify the minimum required "or higher", which doesn't tell you much. As you've got the biggest of the S series, it's safe to assume it needs the most power.

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Answers

  • Milos
    Milos Member Posts: 1,854 Pro

    Hmm...

    Take a grain of salt on this one, but maybe the keyboard has a... sort of battery inside...

    This is only a theory.

    Maybe someone else can help you on this one.

  • PK The DJ
    PK The DJ Member Posts: 845 Guru
    Answer ✓

    This might sound obvious, but if you're using a 10W 2A PSU and the message says there isn't enough power, try a higher wattage PSU.

    In the spec for these keyboards, NI only specify the minimum required "or higher", which doesn't tell you much. As you've got the biggest of the S series, it's safe to assume it needs the most power.

  • DnsQn
    DnsQn Member Posts: 5 Newcomer

    With 67 W it works. But I find it poor from NI that windows user have first to buy a USB-C power supply to make it work. Especially when you think you can start it on a weekend when all shops are closed in Germany!

    Anyway...

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,473 Expert

    No different than Apple (and all phone manufacturers) now making you invest in the power supply separate. It's just another way companies shift cost/burden back to the user.

    Many modern PCs will have a high powered USB-C port on them since the power specs for USB-C is higher than USB-A, I have one on the back and one on my front I/O both capable of 40w. Also highly depends on the cable used but typically USB-A is limited to 2 amps.

    At least one intelligent thing they did was provide a separate USB-C power input to allow any capable USB-C power brick to work, so basically most phone chargers should power it.

    Just things people need to be aware of really and why it's a good idea to always keep a few USB power adapters on hand.

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 775 Pro
    edited January 6

    So I'm confused, maybe some NI folks can chime in. Something's not adding up here.

    I saw this post earlier and had a "huh?" moment when I realized the Maschine+ with it's single board computer running an Atom processor requires 15 volts at 2.66 amps which is 40 watts.

    I hooked a USB-C cable with a built-in watt meter to my S61 MK3 and I measured about 3 watts, it didn't seem to change when playing. At 5 volts, 3 watts is drawing 0.6 amps.... so what's the deal? Why are people having to use power supplies that can charge my Lenovo laptop to power a keyboard with relatively light-weight microcontrollers inside?

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 775 Pro
    edited January 6

    Interesting... so this seems less of an actual power issue (as in not enough) and more to do with USB-PD (power delivery).

    As the FNB58 indicates, it's using between 2-4 watts of power. However the FNB58 has an interesting feature, it has a switch that let's you disable USB PD messages. And here's what my quick 5 minute test showed.

    When plugged into my Mac Studio, and the PD switch enabled on the FNB58, the keyboard did not have enough power to turn on. I received the low power message on the keyboard. Interestingly, when I turned the PD switch OFF, the keyboard booted up perfectly with no issues. Without changing a single thing, just flipping the switch.

    When I connected the cable to two different power banks I had, it didn't matter what position the PD switch was in on the FNB58, the keyboard operated normally either way.

    So based on this, I think it's safe to say that it's a power delivery (USB-PD) protocol issue, and not actually a "it needs more power issue."

    My guess as to why some power supplies work and others don't, perhaps they have issues and don't properly implement the USB-PD protocol? Or at least don't implement it in a way that is compatible with NI's implementation.

    Thoughts?

  • DnsQn
    DnsQn Member Posts: 5 Newcomer

    Thank you for the lively discussion. I actually also have a USB C port on my PC, but it is occupied by my audio interface.

    Later, the firmware update could not be installed. I then had to do this with my MacAir. The Windows problem in this matter does not seem to have been solved yet!

    All things you don't really know until you try.

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,731 mod
    edited January 8

    Does the voltage or amperage change when you have the PD switch on and it no longer works? I wonder if cables that have the PD request fixed to 5V would fix the problem. Something like this (that one is only power no data but you get the point)

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 775 Pro

    There is a difference in current but it seems that when the keyboard is in "not enough power mode" it draws almost half the power as it does during normal operations. Not sure that's a cable issue.

    With the keyboard plugged into the FNB58 which is plugged into my Mac Studio. USB-PD messages are enabled (PD switch on)


    With the USB-PD messages disabled (PD switch off), it's back up to its normal power.


    Interestingly if you turn the FNB58 PD switch back on (enable USB-PD messages) the keyboard doesn't fall back to "not enough power" mode. The LCD backlight dims and the current drops, but it stays on. Looks like it's trying to keep the current under the standard 0.500A USB standard.


  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 775 Pro

    Connecting the SMK3 keyboard to one of these discovery/development boards also works

    White cable into USB power supply/computer, user provided USB-C cable into keyboard. Apologies for the pink photo I haven't figured out how to color balance photos using stock MacOS tools.


  • BIF
    BIF Member Posts: 440 Pro

    @JesterMgee

    At least one intelligent thing they did was provide a separate USB-C power input to allow any capable USB-C power brick to work, so basically most phone chargers should power it.


    Yeah, this is true for recent computers (built within the last couple years) AND for the MK3.

    Just things people need to be aware of really and why it's a good idea to always keep a few USB power adapters on hand.

    I actually consider this to be a GOOD thing. Wall-Warts (TM) suck, because they are wasteful. They waste space under my desk, they waste space on a power strip, and they waste heat and power because they're being required to step-down the voltage for ONE device. They waste space in my storage bin in the laundry room too, because I fear throwing an old one away unless it is damaged or known to be non-functional.

    Oh and don't forget the risk you always have of plugging the wrong wall-wart/adapter into a device. You get a blue flash, a puff of "magic smoke", and then the device is unusable. Wow, THAT'S not a waste of natural resources, no! 😒

    But the good news is that now, the standard is available for USB-C power supplies to be built into multiple-outlet wall-warts or multi-outlet USB-C hubs. Even power strips are being made now that can support all the different devices we have. Some have USB-A sockets on them, but there ARE some that can be made to have multiple USB-C sockets on them, so you can use whatever cables you have on hand.

    I see this as a HUGE ecological benefit while ALSO being a huge reduction in hassle-factor.

    Wall Warts are basically little transformers which consist of lots of copper windings and maybe some magnets and a printed circuit board. Copper and magnetic materials are not unlimited resources, and making PCBs creates pollution and E-waste. A wall-wart that comes with your old-school Korg Electribe is pretty much only good for that device...or maybe for any Electribe of that era. But not for an Ensoniq keyboard or a Roland sound module.

    At least some makers, such as Roland, Korg, and many guitar pedal makers too, actually use a standard wall-wart that can be transferred between multiple devices made by that maker. That's good, but it doesn't go far enough because you still need 1 wall-wart per device.

    But now we have wall plugs that include 2, 4, or more USB PD (Power Delivery) slots, and we have power taps that have multiple similar slots.

    As a person steadily upgrades some or all of their studio devices, the need for a wall-wart for every device will drop.

    And when THOSE new-generation USB-C powered devices start to get sold on the secondary market (Ebay, Reverb, etc), now they don't need to include a wall-wart, because they'll work with any USB-C power delivery equipment that the buyer may have on hand.

    It's not perfect, no. But this is a good thing, because we can build on these new standards. Anytime I can stop with the wall-wart madness, (finding places for them, labeling them so I don't plug the wrong one into a device, and saving wall-warts and phone chargers AND stop acquiring them with each new technology purchase), that's an improvement.

    I say bring it on.

  • Manu BMer
    Manu BMer Member Posts: 2 Newcomer

    My solution:

    I installed this 65Wpower supply and it did the trick !

    amazon.ca/dp/B0C78FC3XB

    Now I just need to update the Firmware :-(

  • D-One
    D-One Moderator Posts: 2,731 mod

    wow thats a lot. To anyone else reading, I use a 20W generic phone charger and it's enough:

    https://www.sbsmobile.com/por/en/power-delivery/6891-20w-power-delivery-charger-8018417334016.html

    No need to spend too much on it, unless you have other uses for it.

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 775 Pro

    That's exactly why I've been looking into this USB Power Delivery stuff. The entire keyboard uses under 5 watts, so in theory USB chargers with 1A should work.

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