NI Sound tempo not in sync with song tempo? Massive tempo drift... help!

Amber Jade · 2023-08-11T16:55:00+00:00

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Hi everyone! Newbie needing expert guidance here. I’m hoping someone smarter/more experienced than me will point out some user error here…

I’m running Logic Pro and GarageBand on a M1 MacBook Pro (Monterey 12.6.7; 2.6 GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7; 16 GB 2133 MHz LPDDR3).

Screen Shot 2023-08-11 at 6.44.10 PM.png

I just got Komplete 14 Ultimate and installed it and am trying to play with it using a generic controller keyboard and so far everything is mostly functioning. I’m using Komplete Kontrol as a plugin within Logic and GarageBand.

Here’s what is weird: the NI/Komplete Kontrol sounds are out of synch with the song tempo. I ran into this issue with Hybrid Keys, Straylight, Ashlight, Sequis and then gave up.

First, Komplete Kontrol IS syncing its song tempo with Logic Pro/GarageBand. I’ve got that working. So when I change the tempo in the DAW, Kontrol changes tempo, and the sounds also change tempo (as they should). The 2 tempo indicators on the DAW and Kontrol match and look like everything should be fine. The whole point of tempo matching is, of course, that your sounds should be in time with your song.

The problem I’m having is that the tempo of the individual sounds themselves don’t match either song tempo indicator like they should. When Komplete Kontrol is showing 120bpm in its indicator (matching the DAW) the sounds are actually performing at somewhere around 90-105ish (I Haven’t determined the exact shift off the time, but I suspect it is a % and not a hard number). This means that when I turn on the metronome or start recording, it is very obvious that the sounds are playing in a distinctly different time than the song is playing in.

So if a sound has an inherent arpeggio effect, modulation or an oscillating sort of thing happening in it (like so many do), it will always be out of sync with the song tempo and all the other tracks. No matter what I do, the NI sounds inevitably lag behind/off the beat, and soon the clashing timings sound like someone trying to cook popcorn in a piano. If I change the tempo in the DAW, Kontrol will match the tempo change, and the sounds’ tempos will change as well, but STILL be off the song tempo by some large percentage.

This problem appears in both Logic and GarageBand.

If I play without recording, and I’m just monitoring, everything sounds fine because I’m in free time. But the moment I hit record, the DAW and Kontrol are doing something… trying to match each other, and my midi notes to the song timing perhaps… and somehow it pulls everything off beat by trying to get it on beat and everything sounds just awful. This even occurs if I choose no quantization and just try to free play instead of playing to a metronome.

Any ideas? This is stopping me from being able to use the sounds at all bc I can’t record anything.

PS: is this possible user error or lack of education? Do some sounds have rhythmic elements within them (made by an oscillator /waveform/ LFO or something) that have their own tempo that does not sync with the song tempo but changes somewhat when the song tempo changes, and you just have to work around or deal with this? If so, how to deal (it must happen all the time to everyone...)?

thank you for your ideas!

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LostInFoundation

The description you give is quite detailed, but it’s somehow anyway hard to understand what you mean.

If you say that the sounds also change the tempo, what is the problem?

Could you point us to one of the presets that give you problems in order to test what you say and allow us to understand what is your issue?

Amber Jade

Thanks for your reply. This forum won't let me post a video or a link to a video, so frustrating. But if you go the following (removing the spaces) you can hopefully find the video I made of the issue.

https :// youtu. be / ALCNDhF3Rus

Let’s say I start a new song and set a song bpm at 108bpm in Logic or GarageBand. Next, I add a track, and I pull up a NI preset sound via Kontrol as a plug-in on the track. Kontrol will match the song tempo and also show 108bpm (which I show in the video). If I choose a preset that has its own intrinsic rhythm, that rhythm is at a tempo. But in most cases that preset tempo doesn’t automatically match to the tempo of the song.

In this case the preset say "Hybrid Keys: Crackle Chord", has a rhythm made by the twangy piano hits. If we were to count/tap it out (which I"m too lazy to do right now) let's imagine the piano rhythm hits at a tempo of 100bpm. That obviously doesn’t match the tempo of the song, so if I lay down a track with that preset on a song with a 108bpm, it will rhythmically clash with all my other instruments.

This is the problem.

In the video, I use my controller keyboard to play "Hybrid Keys: Crackle Chord" preset sound. You can hear the tempos clash. So I do quantization, but they still clash; "Hybrid Keys: Crackle Chord" is NOT playing at 108bpm.

In most cases, the preset’s rhythm and the song’s rhythm need to be at the same bpm (unless you want the timing of the sound to be different than that of the track for artistic reasons). So naturally I’ll want to make the tempos match.

I didn't record his part, but if I change the current tempo of the song (108bpm) in Logic/GarageBand to try to match the rhythm of the preset (100bpm), the rhythm of the preset sound ALSO slows, so that is is now 8bpm slower, still clashing in tempo. The result is that the sound rhythm is now at 80 when the song is at 100. You can tell by listening that the preset sound has changed simply by changing the song tempo. But not in a helpful way.

So obviously Kontrol is telling the preset sound tempo to change based on the song tempo, but somehow it’s always off sync with not only my DAW, but also with Kontrol itself because the preset sound tempo doesn’t match the bpm Kontrol is showing.

Does that clarify?

Thanks in advance for your input!

Amber Jade

@LostInFoundation just wanted to make sure you could see my post. Thank you!

i_m_r

Hello Amber,

I have the same problem, my Sequis is out of sync. And I fear that other plugins might have the same issue. Haven't checked them all yet, I just installed Komplete 14 Ultimate.

I thought the only work around is to bounce tracks separately and quantize them in the daw, but that's such a time consuming method in 2024 when you pay so much money.

Anyway, I wonder if you found a solution…

Thanks and all the best

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