December leaderboard & prizes
Comments
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I can agree with you on this.
My only remark is that if you put in place a system like this one (points and rewards) you must be ready to regulate and control it.
They already made a good step in this direction removing the points just for answering.
What is missing is someone checking what happens. If a wrong answer is given and the not experienced user mark it as accepted answer, this is gonna be a disservice for future users having the same problem looking at the thread and finding a wrong answer marked as correct. Somebody must intervene and correct it.
And, coming to where this discussion started, saying “we give you 3 points for an accepted answer (hopefully correct too) but if Mr Anybody decide to play dirty tricks and flags you we remove 10 or 20 points. And we won’t do anything about it, even if it’s clearly an abuse” it’s not a good way to manage things.
Helpers that, as you say, put so much efforts to give many correct answers seeing these kind of situations will surely lose the “excitement level”
The problem resides in the reason why they put in place this rewards system: the resources destined by NI to this forum are, let’s say it, quite low and not sufficient…and they searched a way to make volunteers users help each others to make up for this.
Therefore, the few guys working here who can’t manage to answer all the questions because they are underemployed surely don’t have the time to also regulate what is happening
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I understand your points.
But…if you see it as a reward for the work you are doing…answering difficult or easy questions isn’t a valid point.
First of all, both type of answers are required. And what is considered easy for us, could not be that trivial for others.
More than this…a guy spending many hours to answer to many users, even if for not so technical questions, isn’t deserving to be rewarded more than a big specialist just coming in once in a while for 5 min answering to a very technical question just because he is lucky to have stumbled across the same problem in the past?
In the end, the time spent is also a big resource. And helping maaaany users that could not understand how something works instead of just one user with a very peculiar problem that will not happen to anyone else for the next decade…should be considered more helpful.
About it becoming addictive…I COMPLETELY agree 😂
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What I mean, there is not only quantity. And concerning the time spent. To answer more difficult answer may require lots of time.
I agree, it is hard to measure. Still I think that those who give "expert" answers should also get some kind of reward if those who reply many simpler questions do get reward.
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No one is making anyone answer difficult questions. If you have to spend a lot of time answering everyone every day and feel you deserve a voucher for your time then it’s the wrong approach IMO. I think all the points system is doing is making some users battle daily to stay on top by answering every question they can and will forever be the top position for it. Just scrap the points and give LIF the whole NI catalogue!
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I agree, that is why I have suggested, that if NI wants to give away rewards from time to time, better system would be based on human decision, not just point system.
Saying that, one should contribute just for his joy, not for vouchers/point.... If one gets a voucher here and there, fine it might please, but that is all.
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tbh for me nothing has changed in the volume of my posts since the voucher thing got added, it's been nice to get a voucher a couple of times but I'm not making it my reason for posting or helping out and was doing that well before this system was implemented. I have always posted quite a bit on Komplete Kontrol/NKS related stuff and help out on other products when I can since I have worked with all of them except Traktor for a long time. If anything I've posted less NKS builds recently now we have got through the initial intense period earlier this year of moving over to VST3 based NKS, mainly because most of the ones I wanted to see converted to NKS have been done now.
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Yeah, you are not the one that is gaming the system. It is always clear who is and is not. All the regulars from the old forum are just as they were. I wouldn't even know if I was on the leaderboard, I asked if I could be removed from it because I don't want to be displayed up there personally and have no interest in the vouchers or tshirts, I request they are given to the newest user who has some points on the board.
One reason I use to love coming here was the wide range of opinions and input from various users and maybe I can throw in a helpful answer here and there in the limited product areas I know, has never been a focus of mine to answer every question available and i'm really only useful in KK, Tech and general stuff, use to leave Maschine to the likes of D-One who is an expert in that area and I don't know anything about Traktor. I usually now only bother to drop in when I have coffee in the morning then I don't bother anymore unless i'm super bored.
Yeah I have no issue with handing out rewards at all and believe that's a good thing for NI to do, the issue I see is the same as you that this auto point system simply rewards those that can spend the day glued to their keyboards and treat it like a game for prize since it's easy to get the top points if you offer an answer to every question. If one feels it is not worth spending all that time offering answers if they wont be rewarded, then don't spend the time, let others do it 🙄
Just feel it needs some fine tuning to help those new users that also may have some good points to share instead of only us old bar flies. Maybe if it wasn't displayed at all then people couldn't constantly check they are still on top.
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Coming back after 2 full weeks break and (as promised) without any involve with the forum and, for my surprise, i still find my self at the 3rd place of the leader board??? How on Earth is this possible???
What is the meaning of this? The meaning is that, in reality very few people really care to involve, so this leads me to the conclusion that those who speak against this "point system" (which after all it provides answers and solutions), they doing it just because they are just grumpy...
Let me provide you with some answers, to set things right and end this nonsense "debate" once and for all. Until the people from NI decide that this system does not serve any purpose anymore. First, (judging by some comments above) i have to say: Please do not twist what i say, according to your own imagination. :-)
There are no "battles" and no "struggles"... i do what i always do normally. The only difference is that because of the rewards i put some extra effort, that's all. I answer 50 questions instead of 40, is not a big deal. And i like it! It is not an "i must do it" situation. I enjoy competitions, because they "fuel" me with extra purpose. Plus that it is a much better spend of my time, instead of writing on Facebook for example, plus that i help others! A win-win situation for all.
And i like the fact that i can win few goodies for my NI collection, for free. Who ever say that don't like some free goodies, for me, he is lying. You are welcome to state your concerns (once) but, if you don't like such kind of competitions, just don't participate, and leave the others who enjoying it, at their peace! 😏🙏
Cheers!
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Quote : "Coming back after 2 full weeks break and (as promised) without any involve with the forum and, for my surprise, i still find my self at the 3rd place of the leader board??? How on Earth is this possible???"
And then the person writing this states that there is no problem and that people are just 'grumpy' !
In more ways than one then it makes me want to write something like : "I rest my case" because it both illustrates how some by own admitting don't even have to get out of bed in the morning to be on the leader-board while at the same time can not see the problem...
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What makes sense to me, it is not necessary that it make sense to you as well. I use to write with contradictions and metaphors, that perhaps don't make full sense in English, but still i choose to use them because they make sense to me. Many times I use the words more intuitively than rationally. And thankfully there is still no "text-police" that we have to install to check our writings... ;-)
What you are not aware of, is probably the fact that admins have checked many of my old answers and marked them as "accepted", and from there comes the points and the 3rd place. But still it was a big surprise to me to see this, then i saw that there are 27 unanswered questions, so, i understood. It is more that obvious that, many users prefer to make debates over debates for no real reason, instead of focusing to provide answers to our fellow members.
However, the fact (a way of life actually) is that, I am here to learn from those who have bigger knowledge than mine, while help with my own knowledge those who are on an earlier stage of learning. Not for debates (only as exception, for really interesting matters). If you do the same instead of criticizing others, you will also get points too.
So, i do not see any problem, because there is no problem! You are creating a "problem" that not really exists.
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Quote "So, i do not see any problem, because there is no problem! You are creating a "problem" that not really exists."
Actually I am not (creating a "problem" that not really exists.") , you recognize yourself earlier that , quote "The meaning is that, in reality very few people really care to involve"
and , no ! , I am not twisting your writing , you are referring to who participates in the answering questions ,
But what you apparently conveniently overlooks is that the same goes and worse when it comes to 'up-voting' and 'appreciation' . So many people do not care to come back and leave feedback of any kind , and a lot worse , they will not when they are not satisfied with the answer they get , you have experienced that and worse yourself with someone spamming you with negativity also ! But that in turn means that in the end it also becomes a 'popularity contest' where people that are generally known and popular, e.g. such as yourself, will tend to get a lot more positive feedback than those maybe not so popular and more than those maybe participating on less popular topics. In fact it's the worst side of social media in working.. I do not expect that you have any ability at all to recognize any of this but it's still the truth never the less !
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I agree on that! Yet i see no point to all this debate. Why are we talking about it, i don't understand. It is what it is. It was made by NI people, not by me. I am just playing. I am not here to judge but i respond really ugly if others make judges on me, especially if they don't know me.
But trust me, i am not that "popular" as you think. In fact i do my best to stay away from any form of popularity. I love my peace and I'm a bit anti-social in reality. But honestly, i can't see how giving correct answers makes me popular.
For example, look what is going on now. Someone flagged my previous comment as "abuse" and i lost points!
For this reason, this will be my last post until admins clean-up all this mess with the "abuse" system or at least show to us in public who are those jealous people who abusing the abuse system. And return my points back. No more answers, posts, or comments by me. Bye.
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Quote : "Why are we talking about it, i don't understand. It is what it is. It was made by NI people, not by me. I am just playing."
I think that you may have misunderstood me slightly ! I am not against you 'playing' and only reason that 'we' are 'talking about it' is because you are participating in the debate on the subject yourself... You have made several comments on this subject , I myself haven't posted in this thread for I think 17 days prior to me commenting on something you wrote. And I think that it is only fair to let you have a response !
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@Jeremy_NI, @Kaiwan_NI please have a look who is that person who marked my comment as an "abuse", and do something about him and all the others like him. As long as such people exist here and act unpunished, i will not participate in the forum any more.
Thank you 🙏
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The issue I have posted about is not people receiving gifts for contributing, I have stated that I think this is a great idea and it is not new, NI team members offered out appreciation and thanks personally on the old forums, I received a few thanks myself and that was great and personalised, why I am still here really.
What I have expressed my dislike with since day 1 (as have others), is this new gamer ladder system that decides who is the top dog based on correct answers and likes. Sure it may be based off how many answers are given and accepted which seems great but this rewards those who have more free time to sit, research and answer every question and penalises those who have a genuine interest to engage but simply do not have hours a day to sit and wait for questions to come in and then jump on them before anyone else has a chance. If someone looks at that board and sees most people with 60 points and then a few at the top with 200 why would they even try, it is obvious like most places the barflies will be the leaders all the time so why would I, as a new user bother to even "compete" with that?
When this new forum first started the leaderboard thing was displayed on every page all the time, complaints about it were made by numerous people that it was a gimmicky/tacky and unrequired thing, then it was only on the home page. Now it is relegated to the profile page and IMO it should just be deleted completely from user view and the forum, maybe flash it up in the monthly draw. The mods can use the ranking system behind the scenes to choose the winner of the month but it would make people focus less on their precious ladder position and losing gamer points and more on just engaging with the wider community (like it use to), not trying to just win the round.
On the last forum, no one cared if they were hit with a spam or abuse strike, it happens because sometimes what one says is taken wrong or harshly by another, you cannot say what someone else may find offensive in what is said (and demand they be punished for being offended) and it is perfectly acceptable for them to express that if it's not just based on being childish and going on a dislike rant which the mods should be able to see (but again, who really cares). Reason people care so much now is it hurts their overall score on the leaderboard and this seems an important thing to some. I've never cried about a single strike against me, and I have a rather opinionated nature that attracts it, if someone does not like what I have said, they are more than free to express that.
It's one of those things, some love the "competition" of helping others, some dislike this approach and feel it causes a degree of digression and friction and in a community forum we should be able to express these things freely as long as it is respectful.
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