Maschine plus upgrades (ableton push 3 released)
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We will see what NI brings. My feeling is that storm of new HW and SW is on the go. I may be wrong.
M+ has been, IMHO, hardwarevise rather weak even at time of release. But still it may suit many usecases...
Now, with AMD CPUs MK2 might have more CPU power....
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I must say that arranging on an Akai Force isn’t bad at all…
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Well…Push 3 seems thinner…and already have better HW possibilities
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NI needs to make a new device but this time they need to make it as micro as possible. The only way to be on top is to adapt to new changes. Logic is now on the IPAD. Maschine should be on Ipad, Tablets. Or NI should make a new device that is with the tablet instead of a standard groove machine or beat maker. Have the pads on digital.
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The Force is still the standard in the performance market 100%, price/performance is unmatched, especially if you got in during the price reductions.
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Please correct me if I am wrong, but The Force approach to arranging seems to be to record a very long MIDI track with everything you're doing, basically recording the MIDI Out, after that you can go in and edit... Pretty much a form of performance recording; for Audio it does detect it's a loop and cycles them instead of of just recording a long huge Audio Track... that's how it works right?
It's not bad at all, pretty nice actually. The only downside for me is the fact it's destructive, meaning if decide to change a Pattern for your Drums on the hook or something you will need to either re-record the full arrangement 'peformance' or edit one of the Hook's and paste that MIDI for the others, correct? So the Arrangement MIDI and your Patterns (whatever the terminology is for AKAI) live in separate spaces and are independent of each other?
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If I understand you, quite correct
But it’s not so easy to explain…maybe if you are interested you can watch some videos about it. Here is the “official” one, but there are many others, longer or shorter
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ableton missed the mark with that tiny screen imho. Also, you’re better off buying the controller version and attaching a $999 laptop to the bottom of it. Those NUC specs on the standalone version come in at only a couple hundred bucks.
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Yes but it is also what they do with it, the underlying version of Live installed on it, the convenience of NOT having a laptop glued to the bottom and then there is the battery also.
You cannot compare raw cost of per-GHZ/GB of performance from off-the-shelf parts that you then have to cobble together and make work, reliably, Vs something designed and engineered to work seemlessly. That is what some people will pay happily for, just look at many mac users, happily choosing a macBook that has far less storage, ram or processing power than other laptops of the same price but it's the overall package/performance and experience they are paying for.
ableton missed the mark with that tiny screen imho.
Not sure if you have used Push before but the screen is far from "tiny". The NI M32/A series keyboards, that is a tiny screen. The screen on push is pretty decent and very well designed in terms of dynamic display utilising views that switch seemlessly as you touch controls or press button combos. It actually shows far more info on-screen than the combined scxreens of Maschine which tend to not utilise much of the middle of the screen space. Each to their own but i've always found the Push screen to be a pretty good fit for the hardware
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You're correct D-One. I owned a Force for a little while but ultimately sold it and went with Maschine. I don't like destructive arranging like Force or Ableton Live. To me Maschine has the best workflow out of all the major DAW's and hardware boxes. I frequently will edit the pitch, or change some things around when arranging, so I like Maschine's approach of referencing a pattern in the arranger.
As far as this thread goes the Push looks ok, but still nothing beats Maschine / Komplete Kontrol for finding sounds. Also the idea of 1 pad that can be whatever (audio / sound / one shot / etc) is extremely powerful. Maschine Plus just needs to be able to use Play instruments. We're not asking it to load a 300 GB piano library.
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Maschine is like a combi of old trackers and the first gen groove boxes like Rm1x
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This should be in "General" discussion....not one thing about Maschine. Only opinions and comparisons of products. Plus, most Push 1-2 users were/are Maschine Jam users and if Maschine+ HW came before Push gen 3. Are they not improving a product that obviously cant survive more than 3 years? And what is cool about still paying for Live software w/ HW if you already own it.
Its MASCHINE forum so its only right to talk my talk. This "community" is NI. 🤣 I dig'd the Jam for differ look...but out of all the "drum machine designs" in production history them PUSH joints ugly. Keep pushing.
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You're correct D-One. I owned a Force for a little while but ultimately sold it and went with Maschine. I don't like destructive arranging like Force or Ableton Live.
Interesting, thanks for confirming.
Ableton is not as destructive as Akai/Force, if you record an arrangement and a 2-bar MIDI Clip (Pattern equivalent) loops say 4 times then you don't get a huge 16 bar clip in the arrangement, you get a 2 bar midi looped 4 times, so if you edit just the two bars then your changes will affect the rest... But, while recording once you trigger another Clip and then come back to the 1st one that will generate a new looped midi in the arranger, basically it ends up looped in the arranger but it's unique; so you still can't edit one "hook" and have the changes affect all others; personally I kind of like this approach as it's a middle ground, but it's def a matter of personal preference.
A screen a bit taller would have been cool, especially for MIDI editing.
I see a level of attention for a standalone that I have never seen before, if this ends up having a huge amount of users which I think it will with time (sold out in the US already) I think it's likely that someone, somewhere will find a way to hack it and attach other tiny computers into that thing... eventually.
Maybe you are right, not sure. Comparing a product directly to Maschine seems to fit this forum, the problem is that the main topic title is "Maschine upgrades" but... what is there for us to talk about that topic? Not much... so people will talk more about the topic in parenthesis. This always happens when things that directly compete with Maschine are released.
IMO, we need a little leniency with these things, otherwise, the whole Maschine forum is just asking questions the manual could have answered or 'XYZ is not working help!' which makes this community really boring to browse.
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I used push 2 for a good few months before going back to Maschine.
it only took me a few minutes to get my laptop set up to boot straight to Live with my template project at startup (I fly a lot, so I just keep the lid closed with my Maschine sitting on top). Never had any issues. Didn’t have any issues running my old push 2 the same way, except the need to add an interface to it. Was super happy to see an audio interface on the push 3.
and yeah, the screen on the push 2 was half the height of the screen setup on my Maschine mk3.
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The level of interest is not really comparable to the original MPC Live announcement, but that isn't the key metric anyway, plenty of super excitement becomes throw away in influencer culture, the key metric is longevity and reach, go look at places like gearslutz, Maschine has zero longevity, nobody even posts about updates if and when they happen, Maschine+ has about ten posts after any release, Force daily posting non stop, MPCs daily posting non stop, Push 1/2 nothing, it will be interesting to note how much longevity the Push 3 has going forward.
As far as reach, again Maschine has non, Maschine+ has non, even the Discord group is just some group for some guy to advertise his YouTube videos, Force, just go look at how many active groups on Facebook alone, MPC, forget about it, Live, damn that owns YouTube alone.
With the number of expansions that NI release, the longevity and reach should be huge, but it isn't, because it is not seen as a serious platform by the majority of its users, it is an expansion player to most of them, and older power users are either fed up with NIs attitude over its existence or have simply moved on elsewhere.
Force/MPC/Live all have provisioning for super easy user expansions, Akai don't really bother about trying to stop hackers hacking the devices, Ableton actively supports their scripting, anything like this that gives users a tighter connection to the platform pushes longevity and reach.
Anybody who thinks this is not important, consider this, Longevity and reach are about continual sales, every device gets a bump of sales at release, but continual sales moving forward needs to be worked at, and it is simple to see, Over lifetime Force and MPC got more expensive, Maschine and Plus went down in price.
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