Maschine plus upgrades (ableton push 3 released)
Comments
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Wow quite bluffing. The pad surface looks incredible.
I've always preferred the maschine pads to the push pads but the push seems to have made a big step forward in terms of quality and feel.
And the screen optimization in terms of display is just perfect.
However, a downside for the lack of arranger mode and also the price of the upgrade kit.
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I own Push 2 and Maschine +..Push 3 standalone price is too high vs Maschine +, they are not comparable.
But honestly speaking, with the upgrade avaliable (not only the upgrade from Push 3 to Push 3 standalone
but even the upgrade of the standalone itself (for a larger SSD, etc. because Push 3
doesn't have an USB port like Maschine + for external SSD), Push3 is a device destined to be eternal.
Moreover the MPE avaliable is wonderful even with a ROLI seaboard connected in standalone mode...
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Correct me if I'm wrong but both Maschine and Push are the best software/hardware integrated controllers out there, by far.
But let's be honest the M+ wasn't the best product NI launched. It's standalone, but not really standalone. From what I read NI seems to have low-balled the CPU and for a long time it was riddled with bugs. Great idea, not so greatly executed I'd say.
It wouldn't go as far as to say M+ is obsolete, but the feature set and possibilities on the Push 3 are a lot more impressive.
That being said, I hope NI is planning to update their hardware, across the board. It has been a minute.
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For the record? I think some of you are crazy ;) (no offense).
I consider myself a Live fanboy, it's hard not to if you've been using Ableton Live as the main focus of your home studio for over 10 years now. And to me the Push most definitely is to be considered a "Live instrument", even though it's basically a MIDI controller. Watch me no care! 😎
Thing is: I also have the Maschine Mk3 next to my Push (2), these two form my "hardware power combo" because I can almost to everything with them. It's a bit silly, but I still feel vibes when I use my Push to load in the Maschine VST and thus active Maschine itself.
However, and this may come into play: the Maschine+ never appealed to me because I do most of my work in my home studio, the times I am out on the road.. Maschine Mikro takes over.
So I think the Push 3 is an amazing new device, but at that same time I am defnitely not giving up my Push 2 over it. Because take away the stand-alone features and there's not too much improvement left, safe for MPE I guess but with all due respect I'm quite skeptical about that as well. I can't help consider that the next hot sales model.
But I most definitely don't consider Push 3 to be "better" than Maschine+, do you even know what it does? 🙄 I'm asking because if you did you'd realize to be comparing apples and oranges here.
Push is, and always has been, fully focussed on session view. If you want to compare it to something, you should be mentioning the Maschine Jam. For those not familiar with Live: session view gives you a grid where each column represents either an audio or MIDI track and you can lay clips onto those tracks. These clips don't play in succession or something, in fact.. these clips only play when you start 'm. They also can't play all of 'm together: one clip per track. And when you launch 2 clips they do play together,not a succession or whatever.
See: if you record something with Push you record a clip, not an arrangement. In fact, if you're only using Push then these clips will also never become part of any arrangement because that part of Live isn't supported by Push. Neither three nor two. Of course you can set up your set within session view, but ... it has limitations compared to the arrangement view.
And another thing... no VST support? Push 3, stand alone, can only use Max for Live but ... nothing much known about custom M4l devices yet. So forget about your Kontakt sounds. And yah, as much as I love Live and its Sampler (and Simpler!) instrument... it's also just not Kontakt.
Now, in full fairness I am obviously biased here because the whole "stand alone" concept never clicked with me. Not for Maschine+, not for Push 3. In addition I'm also not that thrilled about MPE and all of a sudden there's not much left anymore that Push 3 has to offer over Push 2. So there's that.
But having said that... I just can't see either of these as a "dominating device", the whole idea just sounds stupid to me. Maschine+ is more of an MPC competitor and Push 3... merely tries to make it easier to take Live on the road.
Which, honestly, I'm quite skeptical about. E 1900 for a Push 3 controller while Maschine+ is 'only' E 1200?
Oh, by the way: you guys DO realize that you don't get a full Live version for that E 1900.-? You need to purchase that one seperately. Detail about Live: unless you have the Suite edition (which only sells for an extra E 600) you don't get to tweak any instrument controls directly.
And if you don't want to cash out you'll get Live Intro, which - and I kid you not - provides even less features than Maschine!
Don't take my word on that:
https://www.ableton.com/en/live/compare-editions/
Lessee... 4 instruments, maximum of 16 tracks (and scenes (a scene is a horizontal row in session view)), 2 (!) send & return options, 8 audio inputs and outputs.
Lets have a look at Maschine, shall we? 🤗
Oh wait.. we don't have to, because there's only one current version of Maschine, and it doesn't limit you with regard to its usage. You can most certainly use any kind of instrument you want in there, vs. the max. of 4 in Live Intro.
Yes, you read that right: unless you buy an actual Live version you'll only be able to use 4 different instruments within Push 3 standalone.
That COULD translate to: only a kick drum, snare drum, sound effect and the awesome polysynth. Sorry: no more room left for bass :P
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You know NI at least have thought about (if not something in the works already) a new standalone to compete now that push 3 is here; Even If they did release a new maschine + mk2 for 2,000$ if it’s not perfect, and they don’t update or make new software….omg the backlash will be real! RIP maschine either way
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Everything you said is right even the fact that p3 doesn't add much to a p2+ live.
But we have to compare p3 to other standalone devices and I'd rather spend 2300 (p3+live suite) for a p3 than 1200 for an m+ ( I own an m+ and I've owned a push).
P3 with live suite offers much much more, end of the story imho, I'll happily pay that 1k price difference.
"You can most certainly use any kind of instrument you want in there"
oh Really? I have no modulation matrix , no sound design possibilities, half of the time an instrument max the cpu and I have to resample it and lose the few controls I can have over the sound. I can't upload a kit without working an hour deleting sounds and effects to avoid maxing the cpu. No visual feedback of any kind, an infinite list of non specified parameters...
Simpler!) instrument... it's also just not Kontakt
Except you can do pretty much everything to a sample while working standalone on simpler, adding infinite effects or lfos to modulate both the sample and the fx chain
Ofc if you are a beat maker/sample guy an m+ will serve you well. If you want a groovebox that can do pretty much everything p3 it's in another league. Real synths to program, tweak and play, infinite number of audio and midi effects, a real step sequencer.
NI should offer some kind of hardware kit upgrade for the existing Maschines and improve their software to catch up ableton. I don't think all the disappointed user base will trust another standalone device from NI again. This won't happen. They lost the battle even if they made the first move.
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One thing to consider in comparisons with Maschine, Push is for people that use/like Ableton and not everyone likes the workflow there. There is a lot for some to like about the ability to take some stuff on the road quickly without messing aroud with laptops/ipads, cables and all that mess.
Also, while it is dissapointing that there is no arranger editing or even recording (yet) even tho it appears it is still available under the hood, any user who has been using Push would already be familiar with this fact and the fact just like Machine isn't a full replacement for a full DAW, neither is Push standalone, it is an additional tool to use and untether, but you can then easily carry your ideas into a DAW and work with the efficiency of mouse and keyboard. I suspect if an arranger was incorporated it would be kind of slow and clunky compared to just using a mouse and keyboard
Maschine is just as useful for some as a way to sketch up ideas but with the difference it is NOT specific to a single DAW, people can choose to then import those ideas into whatever environment they work in so it is more appealing than Push for those folks.
When you take away the keyboard, mouse and 1/2 of the processing power of a full computer there will have to be some limitations as to what is possible and pretty sure most of the experienced users will understand and accept all of that. As mentioned, this is basicallly v1.0 of Push 3 and Ableton only have basically 1 product to focus on not 50 million, likely there will be some pretty cool advancements over time, somethng NI have always been very slow at the chomp with which is what seems to irritate people the most.
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It's the first device in this class with MPE Pads, in history...The first controller that can be upgraded to a standalone in history + the standalone computer module will be upgradable to better specs later... if that's not offering much VS P2 I don't know what would be. A do it all device for what, 4000$?
Maschine is just as useful for some as a way to sketch up ideas but with the difference it is NOT specific to a single DAW, people can choose to then import those ideas into whatever environment they work in so it is more appealing than Push for those folks.
Interesting.. I see your point but that's true for anything that is able to export audio... Including Push/Ableton.
You can export and finish somewhere else if you like, the thing is, if you can actually finish your ideas without having to commit to audio tracks/loops or having to load a DAW'ish software as a plugin inside another DAW + deal with complicated routing then why would you not? The only valid reason I can think of is really disliking Live, a Session View workflow, or simply not being willing to change DAW, in any of those cases a Push-3/Live isn't even a consideration I guess.
I sold my Push2 back then because Session View wasn't really for me, so I understand that the lack of arrangement view is a bit disappointing but tbh, I am not even sure a device like this can be good in arrangement view since I never saw such a thing... but if someone is about to achieve it then I'm putting my bet on Ableton, def not in AKAI or NI.
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The mistake NI made with Maschine Plus was making it in the same form factor as MK3. Had they made it thicker better HW possibilities
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The problem for NI is not about not being able to deliver a new hardware platform. It’s about not being able to evolve and grow a hardware platform with a regular cadence. Look at the updates from Akai and Ableton, hell even Roland these days. And then look at how NI’s release schedules and features look like. It seems to me they hire a team to design and develop a new hardware platform like the M+ or Jam, and then the team is dismantled and they keep the platform on life support as long as possible with a minimum set of resources. The opposite of what ableton is doing with their upgrade paths basically.
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Exactly. 👍️
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You can record audio:
“Can I both record and edit audio in audio tracks on Push 3?
Push 3 allows recording into audio tracks in Live's Session View. You can auto-warp samples and change loop and pitch settings. Arrangement View editing and comping is not possible on Push in Standalone Mode. “
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Yeah i've been a Live user since the end of v7 and love push and the session view. I'm no musician and never bother to follow traditional song structure so starting a heap of random ideas in session view is great to me, often i'll sketch out most of hte instruments and progressions I can think of and then kind of lay it out as a structure in session then "perform" it into arrangement so for my way of working P3 and the standalone is perfect and as you say, the workflow to allow full midi progressions to be created on P3 using any of the available instruments then carried to the desktop and any of the tracks can just be swapped out with VST instruments seems like a real benefit.
Personally, I have no problem with lack of arranger, as mentioned I feel it would be limited and clunky compared to mouse and keyboard but for those wanting to sequence a whole track for performance manbe and the fact you also cannot set/adjust follow actions on P3 either makes it hard to use it for any linear tracking really so wont be for everyone.
I just love the fact they seem to ahve really listened to users on what they are after, something actually portable (with battery) that can seemlessly work between the work environment you already use and a standalone device and taking that refined Push workflow and simply disconnecting the computer but keeping almost the exact same function on-the-go and the upgradable part of it is just such a good consideration, even if it never receives a new processor, the fact it at least CAN cater for possible updates really adds value and thought instead of throwing products at us users and ignoring almost EVERY SINGLE request we feed back.
I'll wait my usual 3-6 months to see how things go in the real world with P3 and decide if it may still be something I could make do with but after lusting over Octatracks, M+, Akai MPC for years for that fix of ideas on the go in a simple form, this is the first one I have looked at with a keen eye
Think you may have quoted the wrong user? I'm mopre than aware of what can and cannot be done, basically watched every vid on the thing already and checked out the manual.
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I was responding to this part: “Also, while it is dissapointing that there is no arranger editing or even recording (yet)”
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Ah, I meant no recording to arrangement.
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