Logic now available for iPad - thoughts?
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Microsoft obviously don't have music production in mind. I mean they don't have good driver so ve have to use 3rd party one ASIO.
Is that real problem? I personally prefer ASIO driver by RME, than anything like that from MS....
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Over mac RME workED flawless (edit) as many more audio interfaces without needing to install a driver because of core audio and core midi. You just plug the interface and the system recognizes it hot swap. Also you can aggregatte devices with more than one interface and from different vendors without issue. Almost until M1 inception due new architecture means new drivers.
That’s why iPadOS required class compliant devices to “force” developers to keep a rule until DriverKit full implementation arrives and desktop/tablet merges somehow (or where it makes sense instead wharever like Windows usually does to keep retrocompatibility).
You will know it if you tried it but as you stated some times you have zero experience with Apple products, isn’t it?
so, Apogee (Apple focused brand) works like RME did but afaik they don’t invest/waste their efforts outside (and price their products towards that target)
Let’s see what this mean in the future for RME-like brands approach or Apple mergeOS. Meanwhile Logic has arrived to iPad but will Win12 has something like core audio/midi or will still relieve over steinberg ASIO techonologies?
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Is anyone actually using it? I'm on the fence about what to invest next, an iPad is currently a consideration (not specifically for logic but that could be a bonus)
I'm finding the iLogic reviews available on youtube rather generic and basic, it's easy to see what it can do however I am more interested in knowing what It can't, what are the problems, limitations, etc.
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Check audiob.us forum then. They even made a new category in the forum for Logic and some experienced users are there sharing reviews and so.
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I am still far too inexperienced to give an educated opinion about it, but so far I am liking it. It presents a new UI paradigm for me, one which I still haven't got into muscle memory. But I already know it's lightyears beyond the iOS music apps that came before it.
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Concerning Apogee vs. RME ....
Out of those two you mentioned, RME definitely.
RME write's their own drivers for their interfaces from old to new. They still support interfaces from looooong time ago.
Apogee on the other hand, doesn't write their own drivers. It runs off Apples generic CoreAudio driver, so the latency isn't as good and it's not as stable. This has been confirmed by Apogee themselves. The only interface that has proprietary drivers written is the Element.
I run a Symphony MK1 and it's been a very long hard road getting this thing stable. I can't upgrade anymore because Apogee no longer supports the MK1, they regard it as legacy. It sounds fantastic though!
I've had interfaces from both companies, and without a doubt RME as a company is better overall. Better support, better drivers, better customer support, better control software (totalmix kills maestro2 in every way possible).
They both sound fantastic, but RME wins in every thing else.
It might be better to have drivers written by HW provider than some kind of generic thing. The both for Win and Mac....
So, no real problem on Win. You are right that fusing more interfaces into one comes handy on Mac. But one may do the same on Win using third party SW. Or using HW like RME DigiFace USB interface that allows connect 4xADAT in/out devices and mix them and route in TotalMix SW.
But, if you think Mac is Pro and Win is not Pro (for music production and like).... Keep that opinion.
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There are some users experiencing issues with latest versions of macOS not allowing kernel extensions and RME blaming Apple for that and how DriverKit is not enough good vs those kernel extensions.
The point is new architecture requires new drivers and since even MS is going ARM (stated by them) then sooner or later will happen 2 things:
1- RME will need to write dedicated drivers also for win
2- Retrocompatibility will be more difficult (if not impossible) which makes usually one of your points.
Apple as standard on professional audio studios take these decisions time to time and piss some users, mostly these professionals because they aren't so prone to change things were these work properly but M1 came to break (disrupt) the market so these same professionals are asking for available solutions and ironing any bug. We are still in the AS transition so Rosetta is still a thing but also lately Apple is implementing DriverKit into iPadOS... so tools are being placed and professional brands like Korg, Yamaha, DaVince Resolve... are developing their solutions for this "paradigm".
Of course it's an opinion but the problem arguing with you is not just opinion (you usually drop these without true knowledge aka experience or without looking the whole picture) but definition.
You talk about Professionals from the past and I talk for the future, now present since Logic PRO arrived to iPad.
Step by step redefining that future with complete solution: hardware+OS+apps.
Every time you argue against Intel and defend AMD you make my point. MS is going its own Silicon because they need to control better their product. Intel doesn't gives what MS needs and MS can't rely only on AMD (aside XBOX) because what makes x86 relevant was Wintel... AMD can't compete Apple alone neither.
So meanwhile Apple handled to fit an adapted but useful version of a full desktop DAW... MS is still wondering how to make ARM work with their OS properly. In fact this gap is what made brands go for standalone solution like M+, Akais and P3. These are faces of the same issue...
Intel was stagnating but Apple doesn't sell chips for other vendors. MS tried to fill that gap with WinRT on tablets and standalone (as I pointed in the other topic) and it's still trying but hiring someone to design their own chips. Apple has been working on M1 12 years (to say the minimum) until finally could drop Intel.
Professional market? Just Market. Professionals will shift or get in ghettos. In fact all the new NI branding and products had been shifting since long ago and even Traktor will be moved into that space. It's a matter of time and it's already happening...
I don't know if you understand these market changes and redefinition of "professional" segment but you can keep that for you too... but don't forget what I tried to explain to you so many times if finally it happens as I point. You know that every post could be my last and it has to be with being old farts at this new changing fonts new trendy forum. That's part of the market shift I'm pointing, not saying everything is ok or will be better than the past... just pointing it.
It's happening in front of our eyes...
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Out of those two you mentioned, Lynx or Prism Sound :D
Both of them are 100% professional quality for PC and Mac.
RME is best choice only for PC, though. They prioritise PC platform. Apogee isn’t what it used to be.
I would only go for class compliant Interface for Mac at the moment. And USB, not TB (TB future for audio interfaces is uncertain, until TB4 will become common).
RME has DriverKit drivers as Beta, last time I checked.
Cheap and reliable (if Lynx or Prism is too pricey) - Focusrite. Stable drivers for PC and class compliant for Mac.
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MS makes ARM Win tablets for years. They have something like Rosetta in Mac, and similarly it sometimes work and sometimes not so much. The same on Apple.
Native ARM applications probably work OK on ARM Win. I do not know, do not need it.
Nobody is going to rewrite all the x86 programs running on Win. ARM might live on in MS "tablets", but only uninformed people buy such things.
I have serious doubts that AS will be able compete with x86. It might become more clear with M3. If there will not be visible improvement and if Apple will not succeed again to "glue" four M2Max into one CPU, than the hope is lost....
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You need to read more mate.
The answers are out there…
but anyways time will tell us. I just wish you can continue working if finally things turn near to my prophecies than yours.
In my side if I keep doing music probably nothing will matters due I need less and less gear as time goes but there’s a responsability for newbies reading us and that’s why I try to back my arguments with more than just opinions (or wishful thinking alone)
🤜🏼🤛🏼
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You know, I mostly do not have the need to proove I am right. I leave it on others to find out, if they desire.
My SW runs on x86 servers for decades, and will run for one, two, maybe even three decades on (and that time I will be retired or even dead...). It would be too expensive to replace it with ARM something. The same with my SW for PCs. There are industries that are rather slow to introduce new things, mainly if it brings nothing but lots of investments and even more possible troubles.... Everyone is happy it works as is. And for God's sake do not change anything unless it is absolutely necessary.
As I said, I wait for M3. And mainly M3 Extreme, if Apple finally succedes to finalize it... If not, Apple might run to serious problems as not having strong CPU that could compete with x86 for workstations.
The fact, there is no M1/M2 Extreme shows, there is some kind of technical/economical problem that Apple faces in introducing them.
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Now that seems a bit rash, doesn't it?
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Newer RME interfaces are Class Compliant and USB. I have Fireface 802 which is 9 years old model and it is USB and Class Compliant. It may be true it runs better on Win, I do not know.
And Total Mix that comes with it is just great, the routing capability is endless. And DIGICheck utility comes handy when one needs to know what happens in the chain...
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Okay, so Logic for iPad costs $50 annually. I'm already against it, and I HAVE an M1 iPad.
I don't like subscriptions with no single-pay option available. I am revulsed by "subscription-only" because it's better for the vendor than it is for the customer. I have even stopped using some software because the company went subscription only.
And this is how companies, and in this case, Apple, is ruining the iOS ecosystem.
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I just said more or less that. Are you disagreeing with me for the sake of disagreeing?
As you said yourself, and I quote: "I do not know". Unlike you, I'm not advising PC people what's best audio interface for PCs, because last time I used one, it was on Windows XP, perhaps heed my example :D
Guy was asking "for a Mac", do you have any experience with Mac computers in professional studio environment? Or at all? How can you formulate an opinion on what's best audio interface for a Mac then?
I repeat one more time, FOR A MAC, the best quality class compliant audio interface is Lynx Hilo or Prism Lyra/Titan/Atlas, then RME (driverless ones), then MOTU, Audient and Focusrite.
In regards of Apogee, most of their interfaces require drivers, M1 compatibility is flaky and came really late, Symphony Mk1 had very loud fan, Symphony Mk2 is a bit better (quieter), but there were manufacturing quality issues. Latest Symphony Desktop is class compliant, but their included plugins require iLok, manufacturing quality was (and still is) poor. Conversion quality is great, but too many problems (and they are expensive) for investing in them, IMHO.
Do you have personal experience with Mac platform and said interfaces (except for RME) to dispute this?
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