Suggested settings for leaving S88 MK3 on and active 24/7?

jdonnici
jdonnici Member Posts: 6 Newcomer
in Komplete Kontrol

My new S88 MK3 is in a keyboard tray, which makes the power button on the back of the controller very difficult to access. I reached out to NI support and they suggested that there are no issues with leaving the unit on 24/7. I have it connected to a MacStudio running the latest macOS and it also has a separate USB-C power connection going to an older macbook power brick.

In my macOS settings, I have Low Power mode turned off. I have it set to prevent automatic sleeping when the display is off, wake for network access is on, and start automatically after a power failure is also on. The screensaver kicks on after 20 mins of inactivity and the display will turn itself off after 2hrs of inactivity. The computer itself appears to stay on (i.e., when I touch the mouse/keyboard, only the display has to turn on and I'm good to go.

However, after a period of inactivity (the display is on the screensaver but still turned on so <2hrs), the S88 is turning itself off. No screen, no lights, nothing. When I sit back down, it doesn't turn back on. I've hit every button, turned knobs, tried playing keys, etc. I went into Audio/MIDI Setup and used the "Refresh MIDI Setup" option, and I tried just unplugging/re-plugging it in the back of the MacStudio (which is much more accessible). I end up having to move things around and reach the S88's power button, which is a pain with the tray.

I've seen posts with people asking how to power it off after a while because the lights are annoying — in my case, I'm trying to get it to either stay ON 24/7, or to just turn itself back on without having to use the physical button. Any ideas?

Comments

  • mykejb
    mykejb Moderator Posts: 2,420 mod

    Not sure why it's powering itself down, but if unplugging the power brick and plugging it back in again works you could put a remote switch on the power connection so you can power cycle it without getting to the S88 power switch. Something like an Alexa switch if you're in that ecosystem would work, I've used them on some of my gear.

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 5,319 Expert
    edited April 21

    Good suggestion by mykejb. Even because I wouldn’t like to really keep a device like this on 24/7 (even if support told you it’s ok…).

    Also IKEA has a very cheap model which can be turned on/off with the push of a button or an icon on the phone (or even with the voice: they work with Amazon Alexa, Apple Home o Google Home too). One of them is plugged in the principal power source of my studio, from where all the other stuff are daisy chained.

    One click/tap and a light show worthy of a Christmas tree from Las Vegas welcomes me in the studio from all my devices 😂

    And, if you even want to avoid to have to push that button, they also have a motion sensor: you simply enter the studio and… voilá… anything you need turns on.

    Or…cabled ones also exist. Simple multiple sockets that have an extra cable with a button that turns them on/off

  • PoorFellow
    PoorFellow Moderator Posts: 6,527 mod

    Why not just use a powered USB Hub with on/off such as e.g. this Rosonway then you can turn on/off your unit by the push of a button.

  • jdonnici
    jdonnici Member Posts: 6 Newcomer

    I just went downstairs, moved the mouse, and the display woke back up. The computer was on all night and external an USB-C SSD drive was still mounted. Reminder, the S88 has both the USB-C direct to computer, as well as a cable plugged into the power-only port on the back of the unit (using an older 100W macbook charger). The S88 was off again, so I tried a few things…

    1. Unplugged the power-only connection. Waited a few seconds, plugged it back in. The unit didn't turn on.
    2. Leaving the power plugged in, I unplugged the data/host USB-C cable and then plugged it back in. Still didn't turn on.
    3. I unplugged BOTH of the USB-C cables from the S88. Then I plugged the power-only cable in and the unit DOES turn on.

    So the suggestions around a switchable power connection won't really work here because apparently it stays "off" (despite the switch being on) unless both cables are removed/replaced.

    I don't think there's anything necessarily WRONG with the unit I have… I suspect (hope?) there's some combination of settings on the macOS side that will tell the Mac to keep that device connected and active, and/or something on the S88 side that is watching for activity and then "sleeping" for some reason. I don't see any related settings/options on the S88 side, so my hope is to address it with the Mac's power settings somehow.

    I'm saying "sleeping" but once the S88 turns back on it's a full boot-up sequence on the screen so it's more like it powered off.

    Since this is a new computer and the MacStudio has plenty of power, I may try living with out the power-only connection to the S88 and try powering it through the host/data cable that's plugged directly into the computer. That may be plenty of power compared to the previous setup (a Macbook Pro with a docking station), where I added the power-only cable specifically in the hopes that it would stay powered all the time without a host connection. I've only had the S88 for a month, so still experimenting…

  • BIF
    BIF Member Posts: 1,130 Guru

    I count myself as one who would like to be able to leave my controllers on 24/7.

    And I still want to…but I just remembered this. I took a power hit from a nearby lightning strike about a year ago, and things were dead in the house for no reason. Even some things that were OFF when the lightning strike occurred, such as patio lights outside. And some things that were really far away from the lightning strike, like the breakers in the garage or the WIFI radio and hub unit in my air conditioning system's air handler. Even my UAD audio interface got hit and knocked out the left channel out circuit.

    Switching off your controller gear when not in use might not protect it. Luckily for me, most everything was able to be fixed; some things at great cost. But the breakers and the patio lights had to be replaced, along with 3 GFCI wall-socket units.

    As I say, switching things off might not protect them. But it might be better than leaving them on.

    Something to think about.

  • jdonnici
    jdonnici Member Posts: 6 Newcomer

    Yeah, that's a good point to call out. In my case, everything in my basement studio is on a beefy UPS with surge protection (and insurance). I've minimized (but not eliminated) some of the risk — obviously if we were to get a direct lighting hit, it could be bad for lots of things.

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 5,319 Expert

    I would even suggest to not use an old 100w MacBook charger.

    Although it works, and may not give problems, I always try to use things with the right specifics when dealing with energy. Even devices that deals with the amount of energy required could have side effects in the long term

  • jdonnici
    jdonnici Member Posts: 6 Newcomer

    Well, the S88 doesn't come with a power supply of its own so there aren't any "right specifics" to fall back on. Many of the early reviews indicated problems with a lack of power when using only the host power and NI simply says to use "sufficient" USB-C power-only connection to ensure the unit is fully powered. I plan to do some testing with only the data/host connection to see if it works OK with this new computer (MacStudio, previous was a Macbook Pro with Caldigit dock).

  • mykejb
    mykejb Moderator Posts: 2,420 mod

    I've found it works fine with my MacMini M4 Pro without an external power block so I'd expect the Studio to power it as well.

  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 5,319 Expert
    edited April 21

    As stated in NI website in the specifications, a 5V, 7.5W or higher, 1.5A or higher is enough to power a Kontakt S series keyboard (also confirmed by Matt in this thread). And, as said before, probably the keyboard deals with the amount required.

    True that the caption says “or higher”, but I wouldn’t risk a 1300 bucks device (or its life span) with things so higher than the suggested necessary…specially because, if I’m correct, those chargers also output 20V (which is even more dangerous) and 5A. So ALL the specifics largely exceed what required by the keyboard.

    Then…I could be very wrong and everything works perfectly anyway…but… you know… you can never be too careful… and you wanting to keep the device on 24/7 doesn’t help with my fears (electronics devices could have problems not only if they fry in a single event, but also becoming too hot…and such a higher specifics power brick CONSTANTLY connected and delivering power will probably not help on that).

    That said…of course “your device, your choice”

    IMG_4876.jpeg
  • LostInFoundation
    LostInFoundation Member Posts: 5,319 Expert
    edited April 21

    Re-reading everything I said… I wouldn’t be surprised if all of this could even have something to do with the reason why the keyboards turns itself off when left there for a long time.

    Maybe some components become too hot and you have been lucky enough that the keyboard turns off as self protection, instead of melting ☺️

  • BIF
    BIF Member Posts: 1,130 Guru
    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/222905#Comment_222905

    I have UPSs and surge suppression on EVERYTHING in my house, except for the big appliances in the kitchen, garage, and so on. I also have a Furman power conditioner in the home office, and the UAD is behind it, as well as a separate surge suppressor that all of the audio equipment plugs into. Additionally, I have a whole-house surge suppressor attached to the main panel by my meter.

    But none of that mattered. If the lightning bolt, which could have been millions of volts, entered the ecosystem over by the pool lights or the pool pump (yep, the pool pump also had to be replaced!), now the surge is already PAST all of your safeguards.

    A lightning bolt has the energy to travel 2, 4, 10, or more miles just to get to where it's going to ground out. A small surge suppressor at the end of its journey isn't going to play David to the lightning bolt's Goliath…and sure isn't going to stop it now if it's already come miles across the atmosphere to get to you; another few millimeters in a surge suppressor is like a castle moat the size of your pinky finger. Even my big surge suppressor on the house didn't stop it because having come in through a "back door", the surge was already on the "wrong side" of the surge suppressor.

    More weirdness: Also damaged was my Thunderbolt 4 cable going from the computer to the UAD. But neither the Thunderbolt card it was plugged into nor the PC the card was in got damaged. Just the cable! Of course, the TB4 Cable (I'm talking about the "official" one sold by Apple) has circuitry in both ends, so it's plausible that something in the cable got cooked.

    I sure do hope I don't get hit with any more lightning strikes, at least not for the next few years!

    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/222918#Comment_222918

    This is not a bad precaution to take. For the MK3, I'm able to use a 20W iphone charger from years ago.

    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/222923#Comment_222923

    As mentioned above, I use an old 20W iphone charger. It's plugged in to a nearby power tap, and the cable is probably only a meter (3 feet) long.

  • jdonnici
    jdonnici Member Posts: 6 Newcomer

    It's easy enough to swap the power adapter out with one from an old phone or ipad, but unless my understanding of the way power over USB works is way off I don't think that's the issue here. The keyboard only turns off when I'm away from it for an extended period of time and there's no activity on the computer. I've spent some very long, active days (which is when I'd expect more load/heat/etc if that were to be a thing) over the last month since I got it, and it has performed with no issues at all.

    I do think it's possible that just the presence of the separate power is contributing to what I'm seeing… so the comment above about it working fine from the Mac Mini is helpful. I may try removing the power-only connection for a while and see if anything changes.

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