Need a way for CC2 to control Velocity of notes, not Volume

Don Rutledge · 2024-12-10T19:47:01+00:00

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The issue is that a well sampled patch of an acoustic instrument may have 3 to 6 different sampled sounds for each note, with Velocity being the determining parameter that will select which sample is output. Since a breath controller (CC2) is only able to control the overall patch volume… much of the time the "low volume sample" is being output (because a very low velocity value was detected/perceived/?)… but being played very loudly at a high overall volume. So it can sound like garbage, while being played at high volume.

It would help a lot if somebody could suggest a way to adjust note Velocity midi values (in real time) based on CC2 value.

Until then could somebody point me towards instructions or tutorial on how to use the mapping editor to remove all the low velocity samples and spread the higher velocity samples down to cover the range down to zero velocity.

Thank you for considering these needs.

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stephen24

You can't change sample in mid-note. What you can do is play them all simultaneously, and cross-fade. You would need to put each sample layer in a separate group, stretching them vertically to cover the whole velocity range, and modulate the Volume of each with your cc#2 , using modulation shaper so that each sample plays in the volume range you want. With 3 layers, for instance the Amplifier module in the 3 groups might look a bit like this

You would also need to control the actual volume output by assigning cc#2 to the volume slider in the instrument header, or the volume knobs in the (three) Amplifier Modules.

The velocity value you're getting depends on your particular Wind Controller, which would probably best be fixed. Or you could just delete the Volume Velocity modulation in each group.

Posted on Patchman WC forum elsewhere:

I have used a wide variety of wind and string instruments in Kontakt controlled with my WX5 for around 20 years. Once you have got got your WC talking to Kontakt (usually via cc#2, but any cc can be used), there are 2 simple key points to observe: 1. use the appropriate volume response curve and 2. always have some artificial reverb so the sound doesn't collapse to digital silence when you stop blowing.
There are 2 ways of controlling volume in Kontakt: the first is "Modulation" which gives a linear response curve and is generally what the authors will give you to control volume (often called "expression" for some reason) or if you are programming yourself you can "modulate" volume by cc in the Amplifier Module. This starts with a jerk and is entirely unsuitable for WCs. You should always "automate" the volume slider in the instrument header or the volume knob in the Group Amplifier Module with your chosen cc. Either of these gives a logarithmic response curve which is much more suitable. You can extend the range of the slider in the instrument header up to maximum (minus infinity to 12dB) in the Instrument Options.
If you can, control brightness (often called "dynamics") with the same cc# so that as you blow, louder notes are brighter. I tend to build my own instruments from good samples, and for dynamics I use just the brightest sampleset (e.g. "ff") and use 2-band EQ (4-500Hz and 18-20KHz) controlled in opposite directions by the same cc# as volume, to deaden the sound for quieter notes.

I add convolution to one of the auxiliary outputs so the sound continues a bit after you stop blowing.

This excerpt
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NKVVlG ... drive_link
was done entirely with Kontakt and WX5 (apart from pizzicatos etc). Listen to the transitions between notes of the oboe and solo cello, especially the latter, transitions recorded by the musicians for Spitfire Audio. You won't get that realism (yet, anyway) from modelled instruments.

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Uwe303

Hello,

in kontakt there is already a script for that kind of stuff, I'm not at my PC right now so I can't send you pictures. On the top left there is a ksp button, that opens the script editor and there you can open presets, I'm sure you will find it, if not just ask again and if I'm back at my PC tomorrow I can send you pictures how you exactly do this.

Don Rutledge

Thank you for the quick response. I am familiar with the KSP factory scripts as I have used the Transform > Transformer KSP settings before. However, I looked closely at every one available in Kontakt 7 and did not see any that would what I am looking for. Perhaps you know of other scripts.

Uwe303

Found this one but I would have to have a second look into your issue, I maybe did not understood it the first time completely.

https://www.kvraudio.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=480951

If you maybe a cubase user you can do it with the transformer tool.

stephen24

You would also need to control the actual volume output by assigning cc#2 to the volume slider in the instrument header, or the volume knobs in the (three) Amplifier Modules.

The velocity value you're getting depends on your particular Wind Controller, which would probably best be fixed. Or you could just delete the Volume Velocity modulation in each group.

Posted on Patchman WC forum elsewhere:

I have used a wide variety of wind and string instruments in Kontakt controlled with my WX5 for around 20 years. Once you have got got your WC talking to Kontakt (usually via cc#2, but any cc can be used), there are 2 simple key points to observe: 1. use the appropriate volume response curve and 2. always have some artificial reverb so the sound doesn't collapse to digital silence when you stop blowing.
There are 2 ways of controlling volume in Kontakt: the first is "Modulation" which gives a linear response curve and is generally what the authors will give you to control volume (often called "expression" for some reason) or if you are programming yourself you can "modulate" volume by cc in the Amplifier Module. This starts with a jerk and is entirely unsuitable for WCs. You should always "automate" the volume slider in the instrument header or the volume knob in the Group Amplifier Module with your chosen cc. Either of these gives a logarithmic response curve which is much more suitable. You can extend the range of the slider in the instrument header up to maximum (minus infinity to 12dB) in the Instrument Options.
If you can, control brightness (often called "dynamics") with the same cc# so that as you blow, louder notes are brighter. I tend to build my own instruments from good samples, and for dynamics I use just the brightest sampleset (e.g. "ff") and use 2-band EQ (4-500Hz and 18-20KHz) controlled in opposite directions by the same cc# as volume, to deaden the sound for quieter notes.

I add convolution to one of the auxiliary outputs so the sound continues a bit after you stop blowing.

This excerpt
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1NKVVlG ... drive_link
was done entirely with Kontakt and WX5 (apart from pizzicatos etc). Listen to the transitions between notes of the oboe and solo cello, especially the latter, transitions recorded by the musicians for Spitfire Audio. You won't get that realism (yet, anyway) from modelled instruments.

Samuel Azi

Is it normal for key sensitivity not to work in the sustain or virtuoso option? In other options like pizzicato, it works perfectly. Is this intentional or a bug?

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