I have just received my S61 MK3 and i am having problems setting it up.

Zman · 2023-10-28T18:10:45+00:00

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Zman

I will explain the steps i have taken and maybe it will help you to understand what is happening.

I unboxed the Keyboard and started my PC (Windows 10)

I opened Native Access

I plugged the USB C cable into my PC and the other end into my S61 Mk3

I then clicked ADD SERIAL in Native Access and added my serial number

I received a message to say that it had been registered correctly.

Next I installed the Hardware Connection Service Software that was available with the keyboard and registered it.

I then made sure it had the latest Firmware so i went to ni.de/Kontrol-update and downloaded the Kontrol S Series MK3 Firmware update.

I ran the update software as Administrator (just to be sure) and got the update window that showed what version was available b8t didnt show mine or my serisl number.

This is as far as i can get as it currently shows the version of the Firmnware that I have 1.5.3 and i believe that to be up to date. However it doesn't confirm this or show my Serial Number.

Also my Keyboard screen wont change from the original Serial Number screen no matter which button, knob or key I press.

I have tried:

Starting the PC and connecting the S61 MK3 with the USB C cable

Connecting the USB C cable and then starting the PC

Deleting and re-installing the Firmware updater software

Re-starting my PC

Re-starting my S61 MK3....

....but nothing. The S61 MK3 is still stuck in the same serial number screen.

I have been trying this since i received my Keyboard yesterday and have had no success..

Do you think my unit is faulty or is there something i can do?

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Accepted answers

PoorFellow

As far as I know then the unit needs to be powered by a separate USB-C PSU/charger on it's USB-C power port.

Even then , many people using PC have had problems getting the firmware update to work.

You should be able to reset the keyboard by power cycling the unit as described in trouble shooting...

Kontrol S-Series MK3 Troubleshooting Guide : https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/14229273602077-Kontrol-S-Series-MK3-Troubleshooting-Guiden

P.S.

Oooops , Native Instruments have removed the power-cycling reset advice from the trouble-shooting guide , why I do not know , perhaps they want that to be for support only to advice .

I have secured a full copy of the advice but will not post it here since it appears as off-limits by N.I: at the moment.. (I am very sorry if that adds to your workload but there must be a reason why the advice were removed from public view)

But if none advice on the trouble-shooting page works then contact N.I. hardware support ! : https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/articles/360009441878

PoorFellow

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/103665#Comment_103665

Yes, you are not the only one that wonders why they would require a USB-C PSU and then not supply one ! ?

The stuck at the serial number screen is not 'normal' but still is 'normal' in the sense that that has been seen before I don't know how many times. I am really tempted to add the power-cycling reset advice here but will not do since I do not know why it has suddenly been removed from public ! .

As for the USB-C power requirements then please refer to my two posts in this thread ! : https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/17416/kontrol-s61-power-supply (and notice that the cable from computer to keyboard needs to be able to transfer both power and data !)

P.S.

The way that N.I. behaves here (removing previously given advice from their trouble-shooter) then I would actually advice you to contact support immediately and let them deal with it. I mean look in the forum for the high amount of problems people have with their brand new Sxx MK3 keyboards, with especially updating the firmware and then add that we apparently are going to be limited in the selection of advice to give ! ?

https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/articles/360009441878

PoorFellow

P.S. 2

Also , on PC especially , at the moment then there often appear to be a problem updating firmware anyway , I mean even with a USB-C PSU , where there are a problem with some USB C chips sets or their Windows drivers and the N.I: firmware updater so that N.I. also suggests the use of an USB-C HUB (hub must be self powered) between the keyboard and the computer while updating the firmware , the HUB here meant to act as a technical go-between translator... (While N.I. in general discourage the use of a hub between computer and keyboard , see section 6 at this page ! , then the N.I. trouble updating the firmware on PC have still made N.I. to suggest in the forum that people uses a USB-C hub to mend the problems getting their firmware installer to work !!!)

PoorFellow

Thank you again for feedback !

So ! , did the unit finish updating and are you up and running now with the keyboard ?

All comments

PoorFellow

As far as I know then the unit needs to be powered by a separate USB-C PSU/charger on it's USB-C power port.

Even then , many people using PC have had problems getting the firmware update to work.

You should be able to reset the keyboard by power cycling the unit as described in trouble shooting...

Kontrol S-Series MK3 Troubleshooting Guide : https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/en-us/articles/14229273602077-Kontrol-S-Series-MK3-Troubleshooting-Guiden

P.S.

Oooops , Native Instruments have removed the power-cycling reset advice from the trouble-shooting guide , why I do not know , perhaps they want that to be for support only to advice .

But if none advice on the trouble-shooting page works then contact N.I. hardware support ! : https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/articles/360009441878

Zman

Thank you for your answer. I had assumed that being bus powered it wouldn’t need a separate supply of power although I appreciate that there is a separate USB C socket for power. I have watched dozens of Videos from unboxing through setup to using the keyboard and not one person seems to have used separate power? The Native Instruments setup video mentions the USB C power option but doesn’t say you need to use it. I am quite prepared to buy one but it leaves a bad taste in your mouth if this is the case and if this is a problem why don’t they supply one. Also what sort of Power supply should I buy? Does anyone have any suggestions? Finally my Keyboard is stuck in the initial serial number setup screen and it won’t change. Is this normal? BTW thanks for the link to the troubleshooting guide - very useful and also looks like there are lots of problems just by the amount of things they cover🙏

PoorFellow

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/103665#Comment_103665

Yes, you are not the only one that wonders why they would require a USB-C PSU and then not supply one ! ?

P.S.

https://support.native-instruments.com/hc/articles/360009441878

PoorFellow

P.S. 2

Zman

Once again many thanks for a full and comprehensive answer. You should be working for NI as you are far more helpful🤣🤣🤣 I think judging by your comments and the links that you posted (all very useful) I will be raising a ticket with Native Instruments on Monday 👍 My Vendor PMT (Play Music Today) have as always been excellent as I asked them if they had heard from anyone with problems prior to asking on this forum, but no one yet has had a problem that they know of. However, they did say they would replace or refund immediately if I wasn’t happy. Can’t praise them enough for their approach and I would like the working keyboard so hopefully it won’t come to that but nice to know they are there. They also said they would contact NI on Monday as they may have a more direct link to them and get a quicker answer. it’s another case of wait and see and maybe something that happens when you buy kit that is newly released and hasn’t had as much field testing as we would like? I accept that and my desire to own this keyboard can put up with a few teething problems as long as that is all they are. I have a little time before my options will change so let’s see what happens and I will keep you posted. Thank you🙏🎹🎹🎹

PoorFellow

I am glad to learn that you for one are on a 'stay positive note' (nice to see for a change).. Also I am glad that you appreciate my effort how ever little I am actually able to help you ! (thank you for your appreciation 🙂) Yes ! , also I think that N.I. will 'live up to their obligations' and fix the problems that they have initiated given time enough. But up to now it appears as having been somewhat of a rough ride. Hopefully N.I. will not disappoint.

Also it's great that your vendor/dealer PMT (Play Music Today) have this great attitude.

I also noticed that the N.I. Native Access Product Manager (Hayo_NI) reported back yesterday after having been ill and he also mentioned something about Sonoma being a priority (thread page 2) so MAC is also in focus though it may all take time ! But N.I. , including the hardware team, is working hard hard on getting improvements done !

PoorFellow

P.S.

If your unit is stuck at add serial screen then I am not sure if it is bricked as such (though maybe nothing you can do)..

However, if you are going to return the unit anyway then you could try the forced reset that I am a little nervous to post since N.I: removed it from public :

Quote (previously public N.I. advice) :

Power cycle the keyboard 5 times. At the 5th time, the recovery screen should appear and you can re-update the controller. In order to power cycle, turn on the device, wait 2-3 seconds and then turn it off again. Please repeat this 5 times.

Zman

Good Morning all, just a quick update. After spending 3 days trying to get my S61 MK3 past the Serial Number screen and with lots of advice from you all, I finally bought a Powered USB C Hub, plugged it in and after a few seconds my screen changed to UPDATE YOUR KEYBOARD. I ran the Firmware updater software and it appears to be updating but taking a long time. If this does work it begs a question to Native Instruments, If the supplied USB C connection cable isn’t enough to update the Keyboard then why do they not supply a power supply with the Controller to do the job. As i have had to purchase one just to get it started that to me seems a little poor. My next thought is this… If it needs a Powered USB C Hub for this then what else does it need it for? Do i need to leave it continually plugged in and if so once again why didnt Native Instruments supply one? A premium priced controller that just falls a little short is my experience so far… Let’s see if it finishes updating and then if it works, with and without the powered hub?

PoorFellow

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/103978#Comment_103978

Thank you very much for providing feedback.

Well , I for one really am glad that I apparently 'nailed it' first line in first post here , quote : "As far as I know then the unit needs to be powered by a separate USB-C PSU/charger on it's USB-C power port. " (ref. : at least for updating firmware) .

If you take a look at these pages : https://www.native-instruments.com/en/specials/komplete/kontrol-setup/ and https://www.native-instruments.com/ni-tech-manuals/kontrol-s-mk3-manual/en/setting-up-your-keyboard then it is more or less clear that N.I. thinks that the unit under normal circumstances should be able to be powered by a computer USB-C plug... (the power supply is referring to if having only USB A)

But maybe problem is either that the unit requires more power than in normal operation when updating or that N.I. are afraid that the computer may go into sleep while updating firmware or they generally think that you need to power it more reliable when updating firmware than if you USB-C power it from your computer only. Only NI knows. But you will know from your mobile phone if having updated that frequently that it will not update if it has not enough battery left. Yes , surely , that doesn't make it less hard for you to understand why NI would not include an USB-C PSU. But it still makes it maybe a little easier to understand why someone at some point designing part of the unit didn't make a note to others working on other parts of the unit to remember to include the USB-C PSU for updating purpose ! And as it happen , if you look at my previous posts also then NI also have run into problems with the USB-C data interface in the sense that there appear to be a problem between the shipped units and the chips set or drivers for some USB-C computer products why they recommended the self-powered USB-C hub as an emergency solution to try to get some interface problems solved. So for someone that both needs a hub and an USB-C PSU to get your things to work and add to that that people , like yourself , went through quite an ordeal to even get to those conclusion and then had to start all over from there then , yes , it's all a bit too much...

As for feedback to you from NI in this forum then please don't hold your breath waiting. The NI forum service/help person Jeremy_NI has been on a months leave and will not be back until November 6th and Matthew_NI (I think that he is the hardware team manager) is/has been taking time off to be with his infant and family. So though there are other NI representatives roaming the forum then the hardware team is up to their neck in trying to mend the situation so attention here at best is scarce at the moment !

Incidentally , I have no idea id your units has finished updating firmware , but reports go from 15 minutes ? to 10 hours so don't let your computer go into sleep before it is over !

Kind regards

Zman

Thank you very much once again - Yes you nailed it👊 I hope that when NI realise the importance of Power they will include a PSU and also provide current owners with one 🤞🤞 but I doubt it 😥

PoorFellow

Thank you again for feedback !

So ! , did the unit finish updating and are you up and running now with the keyboard ?

Zman

I have found the solution that seems to be working for me.

I am using my S61 MK3 being powered by the original USB C to C Cable supplied by NI with my genuine Apple iPad USB C Charger plugged into my Power Socket and the other end into the USB C Power socket in the S61 MK3. I am using an Anker 10 Port 60W Data Hub with 7 USB 3.0 Ports and 3 Power IQ Charging Ports with a USB 3.0 Cable into a Port in the Hub and the other end USB C being plugged into the other port in the S61 MK3.

Everything is working fine and there are no Low Power messages. Also the screen display is bright so I can see the benefits of this method, However It would have been so much better if NI had supplied a Power supply with the MK3 as it would have saved me a lot of pain, Time and Money. The mere fact that there are quite a few troubleshooting problems on thier Website, Power, Firmware etc. says it all.

Come on Native Instruments ... when you sell an expensive controller at least make sure it works 100% out of the box. I am sure i cannot be tthe only one who has been having problems.

Zman

Hello Poorfellow, Since i used my own Apple USB C Charger I have had no problems at all. The display is bright and it works like a dream - Thank you.

Jono Rezzillo

I treated myself for Xmas the S49 last week , waited a week for it to be delivered and had a horrific time, I’ve had it over a week now and it doesn’t boot after day two. I’ve had to order a Mac USB -C Hub and wait even more days. And I don’t think it will boot as the what the updater showed from the start of the process 0.29 (keyboard) and Updater had to add to the board 1.89 or so. The updater failed twice and wiped my keyboard and I’ve tried every single way of re kickstarting it into powering up. Again still not powered up. Can somebody actually get back to me and tell me something more, it’s now in the box and I don’t expect to be keeping this much longer, Really disappointed and discouraged that NI can put out these units out to customers. My advice is DO NOT PURCHASE unless you want what most customers got. Nothing.

John Russell

Glasgow

PS
Been a happy user for 4 yrs now BUT changes to my future with NI is thinning out after buying the S49 mK3 only to be disappointed by having very little clear instructions on how to deal with the firmware update and the button pressing etc and power issues. Not to mention the amount of time I’ve spent trying to resolve this. I’ll get the HUB everyone is telling me to buy now…but still have my doubts about getting this to boot up.

Matthew_NI

Let us know if the USB hub helps, and we can go from there.

Looking at your forum profile, the chipset you indicated you have is highly likely to be one of the affected ones.

Here is a helpful set of notes, perhaps:

1. USB-C Connectivity Issue:

Problem:
Some computer chipsets made between 2020 and 2023 have a known USB-C error that can't be fixed. This can cause sporadic problems with USB-C peripherals like the Kontrol S MK3, including connection failures, freezing, or issues with firmware updates.

Solution:
If you experience these issues, try using a USB-C hub between your Kontrol S MK3 and your computer. This can help avoid the problem and ensure a stable connection. This is critically important during firmware updates, as data loss could cause broken firmware. Make sure the hub supports both power and data transfer.

2. USB Controller Issue:

Problem:
Even with a USB-C hub, you might occasionally see errors during firmware updates (error -2). This can happen if the USB Controller is overloaded, especially if other devices are connected and transferring data during the update.

Solution:
To fix this, power your keyboard using a wall charger, unplug any other USB devices from your computer, and then try the firmware update again.

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