Which USB cable works for Kontrol S61 MK3?

bastian-fenske · 2024-01-05T14:02:12+00:00

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I was more venting because I'm so pissed that NI uses a standard that is such a pain in the ass instead of shipping their not so cheap keyboards with a power adapter and I spend dozens of euros already for cables and USB hubs that all don't work.

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bzone

Just went through same thing. What computer are you on what type usb do you have available, what country are you in, what length do you need. I found only one cable that worked, purchased 6 from referrals on this site. Put in usb cables and search multiples will come up. Good luck

PoorFellow

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/20978/which-usb-cable-works-for-kontrol-s61-mk3

Thank you very much for that report ! I think that it is necessary to have illustrated exactly what kind of problems that users are up against with respect to cables ! From what I have been able to gather so far then apparently maybe passive Thunderbolt 4 quality cables are the answer to your question. (the passive is important) But not having neither a S-Series keyboard to test with nor a computer with an USB-C port either for that matter then all I can do is to suggest that as to put to the test ! (test since it has been reported to work though not widely tested as a fix since mostly there appear to have been more possibly overlapping problems for users)

And notice ! Apparently then also passive Thunderbolt 4 quality cables are relatively costly/expensive !

D-One

What? Thunderbolt 4 (USB 4) cables are very expensive, that cant be the only solution solution... the keyboard is just USB2.

PoorFellow

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/123510#Comment_123510

With respect to the S-Series MK3 then there appear to be no (other) clearly defined specifications that people can use and look for when buying cables and then be sure that the cable works and not even the cable supplied with the keyboard works for everyone, which IMO ought to be considered as a huge problem since it adds greatly to confusion and muddles trouble shooting !

I am not suggesting the use of a passive Thunderbolt 4 cable as the only solution , I were merely suggesting it as a solution ! (when a user writes stuff like : "I found only one cable that worked, purchased 6 from referrals on this site"). In fact , me not having anything to test with (my computer is too old to have an USB-C port and I do not have a S-Series MK3 either) then I can not even be sure that my suggestion is a solution , so I suggested it as to be tested ! (Quote my post above : "all I can do is to suggest that as to put to the test !")

To make matters a lot worse then Matthew_NI, who in my opinion is the only qualified interface to any true insight here, is bound by confidentiality agreements and NDAs (Non Disclosure Agreements) so he is not even at liberty to add his to any true discussion on the matter. I mean , even if Mathew came and gave his 'explanation' then I would most likely think that there still were some room for some type of discussions on the matters at hand. But when you can not even get the truth as seen by NI then I don't think that there is any real grounds for any discussions as to why and what.

However , I will add this ! : No matter how you or even how Matthew_NI comprehend me or how little credit that some users here tends to give me here then my thinking on things actually always at least tends to seek to be rather profound and I do try to see things in a greater perspective. And that includes matters like e.g. cables and electronics. As written more places in this forum then I do not claim to have the proper formal education to do any in depth analysis but what I do have is at least some (compiled) understanding of among other electrics and electronics and a good deal of common sense to put that into good use !

reffahcs

I did some testing this weekend and the issue seems to be related to USB-PD (power delivery)

Short version of my post, I connected a power meter in between my Mac Studio and my SMK3 and with USB-PD enabled I received the common "not enough power" message on my keyboard. Interestingly, when I disabled USB-PD messages the keyboard worked fine.

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/123259#Comment_123259

bzone

It’s very interesting. The Apple Thunderbolt cable which is the most expensive was to short for my needs. You can google the information about the cable and it explains the cost. I went through this site in search of what people found that would work with the mk3. I’m on a Mac Pro rack 7.1 with usbc , and thunderbolt 3 ports. I needed a cable to run 15’ as the 7.1 is in a silent rack enclosure. As I added fast Sonnet drive cards for 4T 990 pro SSD’s , I added a Sonnet x4 usbc powered card as well. On this Mac the mk3 wouldn’t work with the new card and any cables. I needed the usbc / thunderbolt port on the Mac to power and connect the mk3. I didn’t take a deeper look into the internal routing of this Mac , I just found a port on the back that the mk3 would work with. One cable worked without the additional power cable connected on the mk3. I asked NI in multiple threads and even tech support for an exact cable. No exact answers. Even NI tech support at this time can not correctly comment on the issues with KK and mk3 on Mac OS Ventura on an Intel Mac 7.1 running pro tools 23.12. I believe every system is different at this point; pc Mac types of usb c a 2 3 etc. also for me Avid may have a lot to do with what they are releasing to NI. Perhaps it’s monetary or just one side needs to write a better code. However the mk3 and KK does not function properly at this time. There are work around that are sufficient in pro tools 23.12 , but NO complete control.

bzone

I’m going to go to the NAMM show and get exact answers in person if NI is there. Perhaps one can find the real results face to face.

reffahcs

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/123646#Comment_123646

I mentioned it before, but perhaps you didn't see it. Please look at this thread. It seems this issue is related to USB-PD. https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/123253#Comment_123253

bzone

Right, great post. Again you are on a different Mac. Is the port power different? One poster used a certain USB C cable with your type of Mac , it worked. That same cable with my 7.1 did not. Found another cable that did. No exact information from NI . Perhaps too many variables between computers.

bzone

Also E equals i over r. So resistance and amperage out of certain ports is a consideration.

reffahcs

You are correct, I tested this on a Mac, but perhaps I didn't make my point clear in my original post.

This is beyond Mac or PC and appears to be with USB-PD itself. This would explain why certain USB power supplies work with great success and others do not, why some cables work (ie the Push 3 USB-C cable) and others do not (factory cable).

bzone

The mk3 keyboard itself must have a certain load as cables get plugged into it. That would explain how certain cables, won’t work. Especially as current and voltage coming from different sources , (computers) would make such a difference. The best cable with the highest power rating and voltage rating did not work with my set up. It was usb c type, not Thunderbolt. Very interesting.

Telling

I struggled with the same problem for hours, it's extremely frustrating when you apply yourself as a small child to explore the new toy!

My solution: I moved the USB-C cable to the power input on the keyboard, and attached a USB-C -> USB2 cable to HOST on the keyboard. Viola, everything worked immediately.

Dear Native, it's a thin game that you don't just provide a simple power supply and a simple USB2 cable. Then you can add a USB-C to the package for those who can benefit from that.

Trekkie

I will say there are a number of substandard USB-C cables out there, the cheaper they are the worse chance you have of them working. it is very frustrating yes but my S61 Mk3 I just got came with a cable that works fine. It's plugged into my Thunderbolt-4 Dock and worked first try.

I needed a cable for a dual DVI adapter and went through 5 from amazon before giving up and spending money on an OWC branded cable. I found a video where Adam Savage (via Tested) used some cool cat scan / X-ray thing and they looked at a number of cables and a lot of them are really poorly made. It's aggravating but apparently USB-C/Thunderbolt 3/4 are much more sensitive vs the olden times where a couple copper wires and you're good.

Ojustaboo

Have to agree, new S88 mk3 turned up today and I find I need to buy a power supply as my PC doesn’t have any USB C ports.

Sure if I read loads on this forum etc I should have realised this would be the case, but I missed it.

To pay over £1000 and then have to pay out £18 on what I hope is a decent power supply, well it’s a little frustrating (although I can understand many people won’t need them, hence if they supplied them to everyone, many would simply end up thrown away)

More to the point is I don’t trust many of the power supply’s on Amazon and there’s plenty of YouTube vids etc showing people knowledgeable in electronics, tearing them down and saying they should never be on sale as they’re lethal/under rated etc

For that reason alone I think one should be supplied or at least links to make/models that are fine to use.

Anyway, I now have to wait for my Amazon delivery tomorrow before I can test my s88 out :(

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