Purged samples aren't loading when pressing keys

BComposer
BComposer Member Posts: 12 Sine
edited August 2022 in Kontakt

I've run into some kind of issue with purged samples.

I run lot of instruments in Vienna Ensemble Pro 7 (running on a dual xeon Windows 10 server) connected to DP 11 (running on a Mac Pro). It's about a 160GB VEPro template with 30kb of preload.

Anyway, some purged samples on the Windows machine simply aren't loading. When I go into mapping editor, the zones in a lot of instruments are red instead of blue. I can switch some instruments from DFD to sampler and that forces a load, but strangely even that doesn't cause all the samples to be playable for spitfire instruments. It's a strange issue. Could it be an SSD failure? I have my samples on 4 1tb SSDs, not raided.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated. I'm stuck only using the instruments that are working in the template and loading everything else directly into DP (which increases project file size, load times, etc.) until the issue is solved.

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Comments

  • Brad Yost
    Brad Yost Anacortes, WA, USA Member Posts: 228 Saw

    Usually preload should be set at 60kb minimum.

    Typically when you create a midi track to drive a VSTi and then purge the excess unused samples from memory, DP & the instrument instance will only retain a map of what was played. If you go back and add/edit the midi track, you should 'reload all', play the track in its entirety, then purge again (if you need the RAM back), as the instrument (in my experience) will not automatically load newly played samples on demand.

    Since Spitfire supports their own products, try your question here:

    [https://community.spitfireaudio.com/]

    Good luck.

  • BComposer
    BComposer Member Posts: 12 Sine

    Well, it isn't only spitfire. Here's a screen shot of what is happening in Abbey Road.


  • BComposer
    BComposer Member Posts: 12 Sine

    A bunch of the zones are red for some reason. In instruments that are working the zones are blue, even when the instruments are purged.

  • BComposer
    BComposer Member Posts: 12 Sine
    edited July 2022

    And here's a picture of Spitfire 1st violins purged (and working as expected with the samples loading into memory as soon as a key is played), with all of the zones blue:


  • Brad Yost
    Brad Yost Anacortes, WA, USA Member Posts: 228 Saw

    So... is that the way a clean, freshly loaded instance of the instrument appears before you play any MIDI through it? Or after you have played MIDI data through and then purged the unused samples?

  • BComposer
    BComposer Member Posts: 12 Sine

    Freshly loaded the instrument looks like this:


  • BComposer
    BComposer Member Posts: 12 Sine
    edited July 2022

    After changing from DFD to sampler, it looks like this.

    So still a bunch of what appear to be missing samples in red. And those samples don't load even when I press the corresponding key on my keyboard countless times.

    Pressing "reload all samples" doesn't do anything to fix this "red" zone issue either.

  • BComposer
    BComposer Member Posts: 12 Sine
    edited July 2022

    "So... is that the way a clean, freshly loaded instance of the instrument appears before you play any MIDI through it? Or after you have played MIDI data through and then purged the unused samples?"

    I actually don't tend to use the purge function. I just let the samples load from project to project and save the VEP template without going back and purging. My Windows machine has 256gb ram, and I'm only using a fraction of that, and especially legato samples and some libraries that have a lot of mics I think are more reliable with playback when the instrument isn't purged. (I only purged my spitfire violin instance - one of the SF instruments that seems to be completely unaffected by this issue - to show the way that it normally would work, where if you do purge the instrument, the zones are blue and the samples load as soon as you play a key)

  • Brad Yost
    Brad Yost Anacortes, WA, USA Member Posts: 228 Saw
    edited July 2022

    There's your clue. DFD (direct from disc) is hashing sample data in the NKI or the NKR file on load from the server. I've had issues before with DFD from NAS servers over 100Mb ethernet, years ago, don't recall what the solution was. My latest build has everything local (on the same PCIe bus) so no longer occurs.

    Looks like sampler mode is a work-around.

    Does this happen if you run the instruments SAL on the Win machine instead of from a remote client?

  • BComposer
    BComposer Member Posts: 12 Sine
    edited July 2022

    "I've had issues before with DFD from NAS servers over 100Mb ethernet, years ago,"

    Interesting, but this Windows machine is entirely self contained. It's got 4 ssd sample drives connected to internal SATA ports, and 1 ssd boot drive (also internal SATA). It's connected to my Mac Pro with Cat 6, but that's just for DP to send the midi data to VEP and get the audio streams back; no file sharing involved between the Mac and PC.

  • Brad Yost
    Brad Yost Anacortes, WA, USA Member Posts: 228 Saw
    edited July 2022

    Ok. Thanks for the clarification.

    Maybe you could get some input from @Blindeddie @JesterMgee or @Kubrak ... when they see the tag, they will respond. Be patient please.

  • BComposer
    BComposer Member Posts: 12 Sine

    Thanks for the help! I've never seen this before and I've used Kontakt for 15 years or so...I'm at a loss.

  • BComposer
    BComposer Member Posts: 12 Sine
    edited July 2022

    I think my initial post was a little confusing, sorry for that. For anyone who might have something to add, the issue isn’t that samples I’ve manually and intentionally purged aren’t loading, it’s that samples seem to be missing (if that’s what the red zones mean) from the moment the instruments are instantiated, and there doesn’t seem to be a way to even get them to load: They’re not loading when I play midi, and even “forcing” them to load by changing from DFD to sampler doesn’t work reliably.

  • Brad Yost
    Brad Yost Anacortes, WA, USA Member Posts: 228 Saw
    edited July 2022

    I got that after you clarifed that you are not 'purging samples' but are actually missing samples upon initial load of the NKI.

    Long shot here, but check the NKI patch and associated sample libraries for one of the faulty instruments to see if the file dates are relatively similar, in case something got overwritten by a batch resave or some nefarious windows function. (Tho, if they all load in sample mode vs DFD, I doubt that.)

    In which case, maybe a repair/reinstall may be in order.

  • Kubrak
    Kubrak Member Posts: 1,518 Pulse

    I am not Kontakt expert and I have never used purge, I just know it exists....

    It is not most probably the same, but I used to have problems with Kontakt when my RAM was not big enought to load Kontakt libraries and RAM swapped to fast SSD. Some notes did not play or were truncated.... Adding RAM solved the problem....

    Sorry, I cannot help more.

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