What kind of rights do I get to create commercial music?

herrpeterschupp · 2022-07-11T21:20:05+00:00

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I don't understand the Eula completely. I don't really understand what kind of commercial music production is allowed apart from complete own songs or soundtracks for TV and movies. There is a passage with loops libraries that I am not allowed to create. I want to create piano riffs of 4 bar length with little phrases, musical motivs, chord progressions like they are used on Samplefocus or Loopcloud. This is in my understanding not a loop library because there are no single notes, the loops cannot be used as an instrument. It is for people who build there music on those phrases and add other instruments.

So this is really a question to Native Instruments directly. Could you please elaborate on the passage in the Eula that I allude to. There are a lot a scenarios where you don't create a whole song nowadays and it is just not clear to me if this is in accordance with the licence. If a create a riff, I don't sell the sound, I sell the riff and the riff is brought to the ear by using virtual instruments. It says I am not allowed to sell the sound. That seems obvious at first glance but when I create a riff then the musical idea has a greater value than the sound.

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Kubrak

I am not NI, but my opinion is that your intended project is somewhere on the fine line between non violating and violating...

The problem might be that it might be considered too short for case it is single instrument. And mainly, if no effects are added....

The best would be to ask directly NI....

Matt_NI

"The provided samples, instruments and presets can be used for commercial or non-commercial music and audio productions without the prior permission from Native Instruments under the terms of this Sound License Agreement. The usage of this Product (in particular samples, instruments and presets) for the creation of a sound library or as a sound library for any kind of synthesizer, virtual instrument, sample library, sample-based product or other musical instrument is strictly prohibited. Individual samples, sound sets or audio loops may not be distributed (commercially or otherwise) standalone. Furthermore these samples, sound sets or audio may not be repackaged in whole or in part as audio samples, sound libraries or sound effects."

You can make basically create music but not use our instruments/samples to create anything that falls under sound library or repackage everything as a sample pack, loop pack ...

If what you trying to make falls under the latest then it wouldn't be allowed afaik.

Kubrak

@herrpeterschupp

If I read EULA preciselly, it seems more and more to me that you cannot do, what you intend to, without breaking EULA... But still you may ask NI for prior permission to do that....

Also, you may use some of free Kontakt libraries for piano. That would be path I would go in your place....

EvilDragon

OP wants to create content for a loop-based music library service ("canned loops" for people to use when they want to create music quickly). From my understanding of the matter, EULA doesn't forbid this.

Kubrak

Well, I read it, that EULA allows only "music and audio productions". Hard to say, if loops, or loops based service fits in it.... I doubt it.

And EULA explicitly excludes sound library and sample-based product. OP's project is much closer to this than to "music and audio productions", IMHO.

I guess, it might be included in permited use, if there is considerable amount of OP's creativity and added value. Something like creating of Expansion. It is also bunch of samples and phrases, but lots of creativity and invention is involved....

I do not claim, I am right. Just opinion. I used to dive pretty deep into Intellectual Property Law in past, as SW developer... And generally, also reading and writting many legal contracts, reading different laws and so on....

herrpeterschupp

I think it is really a problem to understand the EULA when things like "loops","music production" or "sound libraries" don't have a clear definition.

What about young people who are using „Machine“? Most of them are creating beats/loops. Only some of them are really composing a complete song. So all these customers are violating the EULA? On Samplefocus you can find loops that are „royalty free“ but they are created with software of Native Instruments. All illegal?

The EULA - in my view - is there to protect the software not the sounds as long as they are used in a musical context. You should not build an instrument that uses these sounds. Everything else cannot be forbidden in an EULA. Because it is the normal use of an instrument to make music. It does not matter how long these pieces of music are. I hope I get a clarification from Native Instruments here.

Cretin Dilettante

Wait, so you're allowed to use NI plugins & libraries to design one-shots & loops, and to write musical phrases, but you cannot sell any of them, even if it's nearly impossible to tell how the samples were created? So if I want to make a whole pack of laser gun sound FX in Massive, I'd have to sell my preset library instead of .wav files, and the customer would have to have a copy of Massive themselves? Is my understanding correct?

herrpeterschupp

That is one reason why I put this in the discussion. When you read the EULA it seems like in your case you are allowed to make a whole song or a soundtrack using Massive X, but not single sound effects at least not commercially. Anything like a loops, one-shots and single sound effects or sound samples is excluded.

And I don't see that this is really what the law wants in order to protect the product of Native Instruments. You are not allowed to copy the product or give anybody the chance to reassamble the product.

But when you put your creativity in this project and create something new, I think your part is more valuable and what is more you paid for the software and you are using the software in a way that it is intended to.

You are not allowed to sample the presets of Massive X. That is understandable. But if you are not allowed to create something new and then use this "new sound" that seems strange.

And when you buy "Machine" and create loops using the sounds of Komplete - I mean that is the reason why "Machine" is a million-seller - it seems strange to me that Native Instruments excludes that usage in their EULA. At least as I understand it. Maybe I am wrong.

Kubrak

It all depends how much creativity one adds.

Using one instrument, no effects and just few notes (4 bars) does not seem IMHO to be much creativity (comparing to creativity in sampling and creating plugin....). But maybe it will do for NI....

One cannot do even much more creative things without permission. For example publish translation of an article/book. One cannot take a copyrighted photograph, use it in his creative work and publish it...

One may create loops, but they must use more instruments. Or single instrument with creative effects.

PhillD

Not sure if it's ok to jump in on the OP's thread here but I have a similar question so felt it better in here than anywhere else.

I create music for stock/library/sync music licensing and submissions and wanted to ask if i'm ok using all the sounds/libraries/effects/loops etc contained within the Komplete 14 bundles to create music/songs/jingles etc for such purposes?

I suspect the answer is yes given the post/quote from @Matt_NI above, as long as i'm using multiple components to create my own works, rather than just taking a riff from a session instrument and claiming that as my own.. but i use the session players to create a new song/jingle, as long as there are other components included then i am ok?

Finally, sometimes in submissions, the label/record company/licensing agency will specifically states "No Samples or Loops" - but i'm guessing this is related to cases where the loops aren't cleared/authorised or are used without permission.. surely using NI library sounds/loops/samples/patches/riffs etc (which i've paid a decent amount of money for) is ok as it seems the EULA states that they're cleared for all/any use EXCEPT to create another sound/sample/loop library for sale which this clearly is not?

Many thanks.

Phill

PhillD

@Jeremy_NI sorry to tag you in here, but you've been so helpful in some of the other threads i've been reading.

Can you tag someone in the NI team that can answer my queries above?

Many thanks.

Phill

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