KK S88 MK1 as a standalone midi controller

SchoolOfRock

Hi NI community,

A Komplete Kontrol S88 MK1 was donated to our music school.
I did like it because of the hammer action keyboard, good enough for kids to learn.

I didn't want to dedicate a PC for this Keyboard, so I've bought a old Roland sound canvas SC-8820 on marketplace, connected the s88 via midi cables, and a pair of monitor to get the output of 8820… old school!
So far so good, I get a Piano sound with 4 variants when I push the 8820's only button.

MY Question: I f I want to change banks and tones from the S88 MK1 in standalone mode, I believe I need a Program Change button on the keyboard to browse thru the different instrument in the 8820.

Is it possible to program a PC knob on the keyboard instead of all of them being Control Change CC knobs.

I've try Controller Editor with my pc…
I can program the ProgramChange button in a template, I see the label change on the s88 under the knob I wanted… but I cant use them once I unplug the USB.
Even more, no midi signal get out of the k88 midi connectors when connected to USB, so I cant test the SC-8820 with KK Software, or controller editor connected.

I would need to konnect the 8820 via USB to my laptop to route the midi signal back to it from the DAW… which defeat everything I'm trying to do with this standalone setup.

USB connection to my pc works well, my firmware is up to date, komplete kontrol sw 2.9.6 works well, I can browse thru the menus on KK SW with the keyboard.

I'm realizing after searching the interwebs that my setup is not a normal setup in 2025, but I really wish I could change the factory default knob settings on our S88 MK1.

At least I have a default Piano sound, but I wish I could exploit the SC-8820 synth a little more using the kk s88 mk1…

Thank you to whoever have a solution for me,

Nicolas

nico5

I don't have a MK1 keyboard, but I found and checked the user manuals.

So I couldn't test the following, but it would seem that you can create a template to be used in Standalone Operation?

As per the Komplete Kontrol S Series User manual (page 95)

And the Controller Editor User Manual has that section on Standalone Operation on page 269

So in theory you should be able to make one of the knobs trigger Program Change messages, and save that template as Standalone Default?

LostInFoundation

The main point of what nico5 searched for you is “Controller Editor”

Set up a template that sends what you need using the keyboard connected to a computer and using that program

nico5

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/206837#Comment_206837

The objective of my post was not to just "supply the fish", but also to show the process of "how to catch the fish".

nico5

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/207085#Comment_207085

Just in case, you don't have it already, you can find the user Manual for the SC-8820 here:

http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/1811335/SC-8820_e3.pdf

And page 22 explains how Roland is using bank change messages on CC0 and CC32 on that device.

It's been quite a few years since I had my last Sound Canvas module, so I don't remember, if it will accept a CC0 message followed by a PC (program change) message. Or what happens, if you send several CC0 messages before sending a PC message (as you turn the knob). Or if you always have to send a CC0 followed by a CC32 followed by a PC.

Hopefully you'll be able to figure it out by experimenting with the various possible combinations. Or make your students figure it out. :-)

In addition, the Sound Canvas has a bit of a weird implementation and terminology. Rather than thinking of multiple banks consisting of 128 sounds each, these devices think of 128 programs, each with one or more variations (Page 107, …) . And not all of the PC numbers have the same number of variations. The net effect is, that "banks" end up having PC numbers without any sounds.

For example, PC 1 shows up in a lot more "banks" than PC 2. As a result in many of the banks you will find gaps when scrolling through the PC messages.

So one has to get used to that counter-intuitive metaphor.

And as Page 107 illustrates, ensure you're using the 8820 instrument map, because all of the other maps have way fewer sounds. They are included for backwards compatibility with older Sound Canvas devices, which was important for the crowd using standard MIDI files of classical works or popular music songs. But I assume that this is not important for your use case. — The whole Roland MT-32 and many generations of Sound Canvas story is an interesting part of MIDI history - if you or your students are ever looking for rabbit holes to explore. :-)

nico5

I don't have a MK1 keyboard, but I found and checked the user manuals.

So I couldn't test the following, but it would seem that you can create a template to be used in Standalone Operation?

As per the Komplete Kontrol S Series User manual (page 95)

And the Controller Editor User Manual has that section on Standalone Operation on page 269

So in theory you should be able to make one of the knobs trigger Program Change messages, and save that template as Standalone Default?

LostInFoundation

The main point of what nico5 searched for you is “Controller Editor”

Set up a template that sends what you need using the keyboard connected to a computer and using that program

SchoolOfRock

The "set as standalone default" option is what I need.
I didnt see it while scrolling around the SW for the first time.

I guess I should have checked the owner manual! instead of googling it.

I'm going to try this solution in the following days.
If this menu option exist in my current Controller Editor version, I guess it will do the trick.

Thank you for the quick answer, I'll get back to you guys with the result shortly

nico5

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/206837#Comment_206837

The objective of my post was not to just "supply the fish", but also to show the process of "how to catch the fish".

SchoolOfRock

Hi guys, so it did work, Thank You!

I have now knobs for instruments volume reverb, delay and chorus.
I have access to the 127 basic midi sounds...

The only thing I didnt figure out yet is how to change banks.

This Roland SC has 1000+ sounds, and to access those sounds, I need to figure the CC#0
Programing a knob with CC#0 and rotating it didnt change the instrument apparently.

Maybe I didnt test it well, but I think need to send the PC and CC in the same midi message…
Am I wrong? Reading the SC-8820 manual let me clueless about how I can integrate this into my s88.

Im probably asking too much of it…but if anyone of you have an idea… I would surely take it.

Nicolas

SchoolOfRock

Yeah so I figured that I need to send a sequential midi message, so in theory I could select a CC#0 value first and the a PC value with another knob, accordingly with the instrument list of the 8820. I'll try that next time

Ill play around with it, thank you for pointing me where to find the info nico, I appreciate it

nico5

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/207085#Comment_207085

Just in case, you don't have it already, you can find the user Manual for the SC-8820 here:

http://lib.roland.co.jp/support/en/manuals/res/1811335/SC-8820_e3.pdf

And page 22 explains how Roland is using bank change messages on CC0 and CC32 on that device.

It's been quite a few years since I had my last Sound Canvas module, so I don't remember, if it will accept a CC0 message followed by a PC (program change) message. Or what happens, if you send several CC0 messages before sending a PC message (as you turn the knob). Or if you always have to send a CC0 followed by a CC32 followed by a PC.

Hopefully you'll be able to figure it out by experimenting with the various possible combinations. Or make your students figure it out. :-)

In addition, the Sound Canvas has a bit of a weird implementation and terminology. Rather than thinking of multiple banks consisting of 128 sounds each, these devices think of 128 programs, each with one or more variations (Page 107, …) . And not all of the PC numbers have the same number of variations. The net effect is, that "banks" end up having PC numbers without any sounds.

For example, PC 1 shows up in a lot more "banks" than PC 2. As a result in many of the banks you will find gaps when scrolling through the PC messages.

So one has to get used to that counter-intuitive metaphor.

And as Page 107 illustrates, ensure you're using the 8820 instrument map, because all of the other maps have way fewer sounds. They are included for backwards compatibility with older Sound Canvas devices, which was important for the crowd using standard MIDI files of classical works or popular music songs. But I assume that this is not important for your use case. — The whole Roland MT-32 and many generations of Sound Canvas story is an interesting part of MIDI history - if you or your students are ever looking for rabbit holes to explore. :-)