Expression vs Dynamics

RichP

I am trying to understand how to use Dynamics and expression with Session Strings Pro 2.

In settings under Dynamics I am using the mod wheel but is shows cc 11(Expression). If I tap it a few times it changes to cc1 (dynamics). I have no control over this. I just have to keep tapping between the mod whell and velocity until it changes. Is that how this works.

How do I assign a fader to CC11(Expression). I was assigning it to the kontakt volume fader but I believe this is incorrect.

Also, If I use the mod wheel for what I believe is dynamics and then draw in expression in the midi Editor, the expression changes have no affect.

I am totally confused.

Thanks for any assistance you ca provide.

stephen24

That is cerainly true. But please let's agree to be clear that you can't compare ModWheel with Dynamics. That would only compound the confusion which I suspect is at the root of the problem here. (I wonder if you meant "Expression" instead of Modwheel?)

ModWheel is a source, a device which generates controlling MIDI messages (specifically cc#1 messages.)

Dynamics is a destination, some MIDI-controllable attribute of a note programmed by the instrument authors (often its timbre).

(As the manual excerpt above illustrates, you can actually control "Dynamics" with the Mod Wheel.)

stephen24

Unfortunately nomenclature has not been standardised in DSP and many words have more than one meaning.

In the MIDI protocol "expression" is just a name that has been given to cc#11. The name doesn't have any particular significance and cc#11 is used to control a wide variety of things. Simliarly cc#1 is called "modulation" and the device which sends these messages looks a bit like a wheel, and is therefore often called "Modwheel".

It has become fashionable among Kontakt instrument authors to use the term "expression" to mean loudness (volume). Don't ask me why. The cc number usually used to control it is either #1(Modwheel) or #7(Volume). "Dynamics" usually refers to the timbre of the sound, louder ones generally sounding brighter than soft ones. This is typically controlled with cc#11 ("expression").

You're probably even more confused than ever now.

RichP

Haha, Thanks. I still cannot figure out how to get a fader control to work with the dynamics controls in session Strings. By default it is set to velocity and can be switched to mod wheel but I cannot get it to work with a fader controller.

stephen24

According to the manual

The lower buttons set which MIDI messages will control the dynamics:
▪ Midi CC#: a MIDI controller of your choice will control the dynamics. You can set the MIDI
controller number either via the number display, or by clicking on the Learn button and
then moving the control you wish to use.
▪ Modwheel: the Modwheel will control the dynamics.
▪ Velocity: the key velocity (i.e. how hard you hit the MIDI keys) will control the dynamics.

Not absolutely clear what you mean by a "fader controller".

DunedinDragon

The way I think of the difference is the Mod wheel generally deals more often with tone and timber, including vibrato and other such things. Dynamics tends to deal with the dynamics of volume or sometimes richness of the sound. But it really kind of varies from library to library and patch to patch nowadays.

stephen24

That is cerainly true. But please let's agree to be clear that you can't compare ModWheel with Dynamics. That would only compound the confusion which I suspect is at the root of the problem here. (I wonder if you meant "Expression" instead of Modwheel?)

ModWheel is a source, a device which generates controlling MIDI messages (specifically cc#1 messages.)

Dynamics is a destination, some MIDI-controllable attribute of a note programmed by the instrument authors (often its timbre).

(As the manual excerpt above illustrates, you can actually control "Dynamics" with the Mod Wheel.)

RichP

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/184900#Comment_184900

That is the problem. I cannot simply choose a cc number. It wisn't working for some reaon, and if I click learn and move the fader on my Sparrow cc controller nothing is happening. I can use the Sparrow on everything but the dynamic control. Doesn't make any sense.

stephen24

If it's not too elementary, you have matched the channel of your controller with the instrument (or set the latter to omni)? What about "via the number display" whatever that means?

Occasionally it (MIDI Learn) doesn't work, so you have to make the connection in the Browser>Automation>MIDI Automation (have a look at the manual). If you open this tab, and blow your instrument (or move your slider), you'll get a red flash next to the cc number that your instrument is sending. Drag that cc number to the slider you want to automate. R Click on the slider afterwards, if you've done it properly it should say "Remove MIDI Automation" and the cc number you've assigned.

RichP

I will check that out. I have seen that before when setting min and max volume automation with my Sparrow Controller to create string arcs.

thanks

RichP

Okay, I have the Controller working, but adjusting the min and max knob under dynamic control does nothing. The curve knob is also not doing anything. I cannot assign any controllers to the knobs either. I would think the min and max knobs could be adjusted to control the overall dynamic range.

Wlodzislaw

I am using EWI, an electronic wind instrument. Typically, I use CC 11 for expression, but trying to add CC 11 to "dynamics" in orchestral sounds does not do anything. Midi automation jumps to CC 31, and when I use Host automation, it shows EQ Treble. All CCs up to 39 have some values, although my instrument needs just a few.

I have repaired the registry to get access to Kontakt Factor Library 2, but Ethereal also has a bad registry entry, and I cannot find how to change it. All this is very disappointing.
I have Audio Modelling Swam instruments, and they are fantastic. They are designed for EWI and not only for keyboards.