Kontrol 2024 outlook: what was, what now, what next?
Comments
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One bit of info that would help me understand a decision, is whether or not the design of Kontrol MK3 has created a technical issue that makes the simultaneous display of browser and active instrument in KK3 desktop.
Can you at least share this info for an understanding of why this feature is not planned?
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Fully supported you say? Well if your criteria for saying that is that they all function in a limited manner, you can say that.
But put yourself in the shoes of those you say you fully support and lets weigh what they have lost versus what they have gained, shall we?
Probably the most widely appreciated feature of KK 2.9.6 is/was side by side instrument preview/loaded instrument windows. Update to 3.0...Gone just like that. I was like, err...what the heck? At least a dozen times users have specifically inquired about this (myself included) and never once answered as far as I know. Even asked yet again in prior post!
Probably the most exciting improvement of 3.0 over 2.96 was the addition of direct Kontakt support. But not for us A, M and MK2 owners. Then there is also resizing the window but wait...there is no more side by side browsing and so that is kind of just a wasted opportunity now.
So I ask you, what reason do any of us have to feel "fully supported"? And what reason do we have to migrate? Our gear is NOT fully supported. It is partially supported. There is a difference.
So again I ask you, what is even the point of supporting inherently broken hardware that will never be able to follow along the development path for MK3? And I still think your limited backwards compatiibility resources can be better used to support 2.9.6 improvement!
But hey, what do I know? I am just a lowly existing owner/software user who has spent around 10k on NI gear and software over the years, just like many others here I am sure. Hell, I even created youtube content about Komplete Kontrol and how great is it. I truly loved using it, warts and all. So if you don't consider me a customer you want to do everything you can to retain, WHO then do you want to retain?
You are simply blowing off thousands of us and it blows my mind. Truly.
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The main point of contention here appears almost entirely to be a difference of opinion between the old side-by-side browser and the new overlay browser, a change that feels unsupportive to you.
Beyond that, the roadmap clearly states what we intend to address and by when we intend to do so.
Would you agree? I'm just looking to ground this dialogue.
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I guess all I can say is I'm glad I didn't buy-in to this kickstarter. Still following along in hopes of seeing MIDI template implementation (someday) and whether I want to run this in my studio as a primary controller.
I do believe this is a spectacular piece of hardware, but the sw dev is lagging by a year at best.
Had hopes for an even more "pro" version of the hardware but not sure that's a reasonable expectation from NI in the next couple years. 4x4 or better yet, 4x8 pads please? And sliders, but perhaps touch-strip style similar to APC64. At this point I'm thinking Akai may deliver this first.
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Respectfully - if you really want to "ground" the dialogue - you need to warm up to the fact that main "point" of contention here that KKv2 and KKV3 are like night and day.
Usually when one "upgrades" to a new version of a specific piece of software - there is (at least should be) a reasonable expectation that what was good and solid and usable in the prior version - makes it to the newer version along with other quality of life improvements, enhancements and new features. This has been standard fare for everything I have used - until Komplete Kontrol changed this standard.
KKv3 was a complete disassembly of KK to the point where it is laughable to even consider using KKv3 on a MKII when KKv2.9.6 is by far and away the best choice at this moment.
Now - am I (was I) expecting to see NI "backport" all the truly cool new features of KK BACK to my MKII when using KKv3? Of course not. I am a realist and know that the MKII tech is what it is and the MKIII tech has much more on board. However....
But like @MyStudioOne (and others) - I do take offense to any implication that KKv3 is "fully" supported on a MKII board. That distinction needs to be made and redefined as saying "fully supported" will make ANY MKII user assume that anything they enjoy now in KKv2 should be available to them in KKv3 - which is not even close to being realistic.
VP
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I don't care about side-by-side specifically. Up-and-Down would be a fine layout to allow simultaneous display of browser and active instrument in KK3 too. I have shared my rough ideas for this layout several times.
But can you answer the question the reason why NI can't or won't offer this feature on the KK3 desktop?
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Guys…we are just wasting our breath…
They will NEVER answer to questions they don’t want to answer
AND
Clearly their ideas on what is worth top priority differ from ours (and also on how much time users can wait to have something (or better…have it back…not even talking about new features here) before they will just leave)
Evidently for nowadays companies taking 2 years or more to have a functional product (or at least working like before) is acceptable. It’s only for us that this means 2 wasted years of our (not infinite) life. And probably wasted 1000 bucks.
“Funny” part is that after a couple more years they will propose us another new “necessary for being compatible with arising tech stacks” piece of gear and abandon development of the one we paid so much for and waited so much time for them to give us the features for which we bought it.
New business trend is “sell them something promising that it will do this and that IN THE FUTURE and then…just sell them something else”.
And…since we are buying…they are just right. I’m sure they are so not worried because people have already bought MK3 based on promises…so…no need to hurry
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In facts…WE are the ones being wrong:
The thread title says it clearly.
It’s “what WAS, what now, what next”
Not “what do you think” or “what do you want”
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"I’m sure they are so not worried because people have already bought MK3 based on promises…so…no need to hurry"
You have touched on an excellent point here.
I came into this "roadmap" thread with just a single hope back on Page 1 - and that was to see any glimmer of feature/usability parity from KKv2 making it to KKv3 at least "outlined" for 2024.
But what I should have been focusing on was MKIII uptake.
It makes more and more sense to me that within the bowels of the company (be it DEV or Marketing or the directionless private equity firm that now runs NI) - the more time that passes and the more people that "buy" into the MKIII program - the much less onus there will be on even trying to achieve KK feature parity from v2 to v3.
I mean why waste time, talent and money keeping a MKII user happy when it is way easier to focus on the new MKIII buyer and build out things for them that will turn in more opportunity for the directionless private equity firm.
Maybe Matt should just rip the band aid off and tell it like it is for us.
Til then - onward with KK v2.9.6.
VP
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There seems to be a little cross-threading going on here. This thread is to share information on the roadmap, something the community has asked for a lot, and @Matthew_NI has provided.
While I understand some complaints, there are other threads for this. This is about Kontrol, and where it's heading in future.
Do I want focus on KK desktop app? Yes, but this is only a small part of the Kontrol ecosystem.
Do I want more features on the S88 MK3 I've invested in? Yes - which is why this thread, and roadmap are important to me.
Again, I understand that some folks will want to know 'x' about other software, or why we can't have plugin and presets displlayed at the same time on desktop, but many of these have already been discussed in other threads.
Ultimately, you have the choice to vote with your wallet, and your opinion is obviously valuable, but me, I'd prefer to keep this on track, rather than going off course into other areas this thread wasn't designed for.
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I dunno. If @Matthew_NI wanted a thread that was only an announcement of the roadmap with otherwise zero Community commentary or input, he wouldn’t have left the thread open. To me, the thread title suggests he is open to the Community users’ requests for features, as in “What next?”. Even if those requests are phrased in the form of frustration.
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"While I understand some complaints, there are other threads for this. This isn't about Kontrol, and where it's heading in future."
Hmm - I guess I must have REALLY misunderstood this thread title (but cannot see how I did):
Kontrol 2024 outlook: what was, what now, what next?
Or these questions from Matt:
What would you like to hear more about? What would you advocate for or against?
I think as long as a question has anything to with the "Kontrol" world - it's valid - and yes we may want to hear more (or less) about a question and yes - we might want to advocate for (or against) an item, idea or roadmap item as well.
And with all due respect:
"Ultimately, you have the choice to vote with your wallet."
Many of us MKII users (probably totalling many more "wallets" than the entire MKIII world at this point) have already voted with our wallets and since KKv3 is (supposedly) designed for us too - I think it's fair that we get to see where we stand in the "Kontrol" world too.
I am hoping you are not looking at this thread as a MKIII exclusive?
VP
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Komplete Kontrol 3 desktop is a totally valid part of this Kontrol 2024 thread.
It only exists because Kontrol MK3 S-series exists.
They are joined at the c(hip).
And that might be part of the problem.
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There will always be someone telling others where they have to write things.
But saying this in a thread about the roadmap of a product…. A roadmap is EXACTLY about where a product is heading in the future…
And this thread, with its title, exactly talks about what was, what is now and what will be next.
Therefore talking about what was, what is now and what will be next is imo exactly on point (even if the usual users thinking “vote down” is a weapon to use against people expressing their opinions will think differently…).
In any case, splitting MK3 from Komplete Kontrol is something without any sense. If it was the case, MK3 would be exactly as many other controllers and the whole NKS ecosystem would have no meaning.
If someone just wanted the roadmap and not reading others opinions…well…that is in the first page. Enough to read that single post and not continue with the others.
Sorry…but this time I really don’t understand you
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It seems to me a fundamental question I posed several times still needs to be addressed. We have a commitment in the roadmap to restore drag and drag. That is good but it poses the question, how could drag and drop be restored without being able to have both plugin (the drag destination) and browser (the drag source) in the same view?
My concern is without an answer to this the promise of drag and drop is being left vague, and could easily end up just being able to drag and drop into external DAWS but not internal plugins, even though that has been a large part of what has been lost and is vital for doing things like populating Battery cells or Kontakt and Reaktor sample maps with browser samples, or feeding samples into instruments like Form or granular plugins.
Also we are still seeing this misconception around the numbers of people using features like NKS editing. Just because it was ‘power users’ mainly using those features doesn’t mean they were the only one benefiting from them, the fact is the vast majority of KK users have benefited from the work of a small minority of users. It’s like saying let’s remove the ability to create and edit user ensembles in Reaktor because that feature is only used by a comparative few. It’s always the case that the deeper features of software are often only used by a small minority, but when those users share their work with the majority of users then essentially they are all benefiting from those features, and all being deprived of them when taken away
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