Are we going backwards, Large screens to small ones?

Rectro33 · 2024-02-25T07:37:41+00:00

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I just got a S88 Mk2 as the idea or having direct control via the screens and buttons directly on the keyboard appealed to me, plus a nice set of weight keys of course.

When in use I actually found it far quicker to just use the Kontact Komplete plugin and a mouse, I could find sounds way faster. This made me ask myself this question, are we going backwards, back to the days where hardware synths had even smaller screens tons of pages when if only we could do all this via computer screen monitor 10x the size and with a mouse?

I can see if there was a MK4 controller that had a 10" touch screen that would kind of make more sense. What do you think?

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reffahcs

To be honest, now that plugins are being designed to conform to the 8-knob Kontrol series keyboard, I find the screen on the keyboard to be largely unnecessary in it's current state. There are of course a few exceptions like Massive X, Diva etc...

This Mac screenshot shows me the 8 available controls and their current state, and it's basically identical to what's shown on the keyboard. Since you're tethered to a computer regardless, I find it's just as easy to look at the computer screen as it is the keyboard screen.

In my case my MK3 is on a pull out keyboard tray, so in fact it ends up being more convenient to use the PC screen because it means I don't have to pull the keyboard tray out very far. I also don't usually change the settings that often while I'm playing. Normally I find a good setting and leave it there during a session.

That being said, once the new NKS2 format takes off and vendors start taking advantage of all the new features, I feel like the keyboard screen will be more useful. However, with the most of the currently available plugins, I find the screen unnecessary, and not as useful as I thought it would be.

DunedinDragon

I think you have to combine BOTH screens and interfaces to get the most out of them because one doesn't replace the other, but it does enhance the workflow.

After watching Simon Franglen video on the S88 I copied his setup and purchased a small bluetooth keyboard I can place on the top of my s88MK3 so I can easily work with either. For detail work I concentrate on the S88's knobs, pedals, and embedded features like Key Assist, for general DAW operations it's easier to use the mouse and keyboard.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YMbfjWAekzc

Rectro33

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/135751#Comment_135751

That was a interesting watch thanks for posting that up. Iv only had my s88 for a week or so, maybe over time I will see more use in the screen. I can see from that video how my keyboard is way too high on my desk. Not looked into the MK3 too much but I do wonder if the touch is a little lighter than my MK2 as there is little chance of me programming 16th notes with the return back speed of this keybed as nice as it feels for piano.

nightjar

I am very disappointed in NI's strategy of keeping the NKS2 ecosystem tethered to a "hardware dongle".

Shortchanging the KK3 desktop from NKS2 feature is a BIG MISTAKE.

A desktop screen + QWERTY/mouse/trackpad combo is FAR superior to the on device screen and on device selection/navigation controls.

nightjar

Forcing the user to look down at the on-device screen is very user unfriendly.

The desktop screen of KK3 should be full featured with or without a KSMk3 keyboard attached.

I can hardly believe that NI is pursuing the opposite design strategy.

Terrible decision IMO

holonology

Screens are a strange one these days because one of the reasons people like hardware is that it allows them to get away from the computer based environment that many of use use every day. So in that scenario any screen should be differnent to a standard monitor to avoid the feeling of pulling people back into their work laptop.

AKAI have seen this and tried to land somewhere in the middle of all the options out there. To my knowledge, the MPC range is unique in that it fits a price category not unlike the NI ecosystem. However, when you buy MPC, that is a standalone device. For example, you can get the MPC Key 61 at the same price as the S-Series 88 key version. But the S-Series is a MIDI controller only. The MPC Key is a full workstation WITH a touchscreen. So in their eyes, my guess is, they want you to finish full tracks on there, and the touchscreen plays an important part in that process. Even if it's just for 10% of the functionality, like renaming a track etc - there are certain things that it can be nice to literally touch on the screen to access.

In that scenario, since you're not hooked up to a computer - a MIDI controller where the screen is there for aesthetic reasons often leads to comments about it being faster to just use the mouse. Like if you're hooked up to a computer then you have a 24/32" screen anyways. And if it's too small to be useful, then that can also lead to the same result. I have to say I don't envy NI in this department, but wish them well of course.

For me, premium MIDI controllers are out. Screens or not, they don't have enough utility to warrant the price, especially when they get tossed once heavy editing starts. In that regard, any hardware has to be an instrument to warrant that value, and that means standalone functionality. AKAI have everyone licked on price so I would like to see someone challenge that. Mainly because others have better and more effecient workflows.

nightjar

And @holonology commentary leads to a smart solution to this quandary.

Have the "brains and display" of a highly portable music creation rig developed for an existing tablet device... like an Apple iPad.

Make the physical integration of the tablet and controller as elegant as possible.

Developing the software for an existing tablet OS can likely share more code with desktop development and thus decrease cost and time to market vs a more custom "on-device" environment.

Many attempts were made in the early years of tablets with limited success.. but that was then and this is now.

A fresh attempt that uses the latest tablet hardware/software could be pretty awesome.

Ojustaboo

I like midi controller keyboards, I really like my Keylab Mk2 61 note with all it's faders, knobs and buttons, however the one thing I don't like about it, is the tiny two line display, would much rather a colour screen simply to display more information.

I personally don't want only an ipad type thing, I do own an Ipad pro, but it would be yet another thing to look at in addition to my PC screen and keyboard displays.

With regards to looking at the screen and not the PC, I tend to agree that when I'm recording into my DAW, I'm looking at my PC anyway.

I have my Keylab set up so the first 8 knobs do the same as the 8 knobs on my S88, and it's becoming second nature to look at komplete kontrol and use the knobs on my Keylab rather than look at the screen on my S88.

I'm not entirely sure what NI is trying to achieve, I got the MK3 as I was after an 88 note, was going to get the mk2 and the mk3 was released, watching the NI vid of them playing Arturias CS80 and using the buttons on the top of the screen to jump to sections of the CS80 controls, this to me made it worth the extra cost.

Personally I like synths with buttons/knobs/faders and never understood why synths went through a phase of minimal buttons and everything meaning multiple key presses on a two line screen etc.

Likewise, I don't quite get why NI have less buttons on their MK3 than their mk2, seems a step backwards, I would love them to have faders as well as knobs, certain parameters just feel better when changed using faders.

I only got both the S88 mk3 and my keylab in January, before that I had a S61 mk1 and separate digital piano.

I'm so very very glad I made the decision to get the Arturia keylab mk2 61 and the S88 mk3 rather than the S61 mk3 and the Arturia 88, simple reason being that while I love my S88, and of course when playing piano type instruments or when using articulations with it's lights, it's superb, I do enjoy playing my Keylab for most other sounds far more (although often play left hand on S88) , obviously the synth keybed is one of the reasons but I would have got that which ever 61 note I chose, the other big reason is the added faders and buttons, much prefer using faders on my keylab to control volume on my DAW tracks and while true the S88 screen gives me a nice display showing the volume, I have my DAW open anyway with the mixer showing, so again I can use the faders on the keylab and see on the screen exactly what I'm doing.

And as I said earlier, playing most things in komplete kontrol, the first 8 knobs on my keylab do the same as the 8 knobs on my S88 and having komplete kontrol open, I can easily see which knob does what.

Even articulations, having the keyboard showing in Kontakt, I can see at a glance which note does what, and if it's within the 61 notes of my keylab, I can instantly press the required notes to do whatever articulation I want, but the light guide on the S88 is very noce, especially when the articulations are out of the 61 note range (without changing the octaves up or down)

Like @reffahcs my S88 is also on a pull out shelf/table and like them, 99% of the time I now only pull it out far enough to see the knobs if I'm playing a piano or just enough to see the keyboard if I'm playing mainly on my 61 note keylab

At the moment, the only time I really use the S88 screen is when using edit mode on the few enabled instruments.

BIF

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/135751#Comment_135751

Thank you so much for linking this!

I really like how Simon took the MK3 and just made it HIS. That's real can-do attitude on display right there. He's got his pedals set up, and if he needs to reset one of the control interfaces, such as the ribbon or one of the pedals, he just does it, then gets on with composing.

I also like the part where he said he doesn't do loops. Instead, he has to play the part all the way through. There's something powerful in that, especially for a film composer.

What an impressive composer, and what an impressive will of force. I need to emulate some more of that in my own creative endeavors, and not just music.

DunedinDragon

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/136302#Comment_136302

ABSOLUTELY. This video really inspired me to re-examine how I approach arranging and developing my projects with my S88MK3. I've had a more traditional approach using instrument libraries but I can see now how important it is to make use of ambience and motion to raise the level of the arrangement and its emotional impact. I've been taking baby steps in that direction with libraries like Piano Colors, but I'm now looking at some of the tools similar to what he was using like Lores and Fables to take that next step in combining ambience with traditional song structures to give them greater emotional impact.

BIF

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/136324#Comment_136324

For sure!

I didn't realize we could plug in FOUR pedals! I mean, I knew it, sure. But I hadn't REALIZED it. And yep, sure enough, even my S61 has four. What the heck is wrong with me...did I not even look at the damned thing? Did those four ports just go right past my eyes and fall out of my ears without entering my grey matter and making at least a shadow of an impression? Damn!

I'm also impressed that NI reached out to him and he was able to give his input on having the ribbon controller ABOVE the mod and bend wheels. And they listened to him!

My sincere hope is that going forward, NI will also think to check with the power users here in the forums before breaking their software capabilities so bad as they did with the KK3 software. Don't get me wrong, I can barely tie my shoes, so I'm NOT calling myself a power user! But when you have so many of them gathered in the same place, why would you not at least check in once in awhile? At least now, good people like @Matthew_NI and others are trying to make an effort. Just keep us in the loop and leverage our experience as users BEFORE you get to the design phase next time, NI!

And finally, a comment on the visuals of AIR Studios. That place is sweet! This may reveal me and my ignorance, but I know nothing of it or its history. It looks like a former church. Just gorgeous, inside and out. I can definitely relate to his comment that it's the best place in the world to compose and make music.

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