S88 MK3 Cable did not work at all

Matthew_NI

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/134234#Comment_134234

MK3 has two ports:

1) For simultaneously data and power

2) For auxiliary power if the first port is not able to provide adequate power (e.g. a USB-A port)

These are not two separate issues.

I cannot make available such a list. I can simply advise if symptoms present how they should be addressed.

Matthew_NI

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/134229#Comment_134229

This narrative simply isn't factual. I know how frustrating this is - but please recognize that the shortcoming here is specific to the USB-C implementation in certain hardware, and not the peripherals that are affected by the shortcoming.

As I've stated - it is to do with communication protocols in the chip breaking down, which can affect the transfer of whatever's coming down the pipe (USB-C cable).

Also, we are not talking about a lot of cases. We are talking about a small number of cases handled either here in the forum, or via our customer support channels, or both. The number of unaffected customers is exponentially larger.

PoorFellow

Thank you Matthew_NI much better that you yourself clarify than my 'attempts' , though I hope that you do not think that I have given reason to any 'opinion becoming misinformation' here...

Matthew_NI

I don't think any one person has done any wrong or is at fault whatsoever - not you, nor anyone else. Everyone is only trying to help, and also express their warranted frustrations. I just want to make sure things are clear is all.

BIF

@Matthew_NI

Thank you sir, for your patience and persistence. It is noticed and it is appreciated.

Djoanist

Bonjour,

Je viens de recevoir mon s88 MK3

Connecté en usb c, avec le câble fourni, le clavier s'allume welcome Add you serial in Native Access… mais mon système ne le reconnait pas… donc pas moyen de mettre à jour pour utiliser le clavier…quelle serait la solution svp ?

DunedinDragon

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/134229#Comment_134229

By your "logic" you have a VERY long list of manufacturers that have not been diligent in testing their products adequately and therefore having USB failures. Just the ones I've experienced would include Line 6, Fractal, Universal Audio, ASUS computers, Yamaha, QSC mixers, Samsung, Morningstar, iConnectivity and inumerable audio interfaces..probably some more if I want to really think about it. But obviously with your VAST experience in product testing of commercial grade products ONLY YOU have the key for fixing this pretty much universal problem that's been plaguing the industry for years.

Maybe it's YOU that should be blamed for buying/using cheap cables or not doing the appropriate level of research to discover which USB ports are actual direct ports in a computer versus ones that are just unpowered hubs or not being forward thinking enough and prepared with an adequate powered hub in your inventory of gear.

Djoanist

je pense installer une carte pci supplémentaire avec usb c 3.1 , cela pourrait il convenir ?

BIF

Well, as end-users, some of whom are trying our best to help out our fellow end-users (without compensation for our time, effort, or expertise, I might add), what would prevent us from making our own list? We could just start asking for more detailed information…even more detailed than we already do.

For example, I could test my connections without my USB-C hub in the chain, and whether it works or not, then I could share my precise motherboard model number, manufacture date, and the chip on my board that is doing USB-C, as well as the port that works (or doesn't work, as the case may be). Likewise, my hub and dock both work, so I could share THOSE model numbers and (if known), the chips inside them.

We already do this…I've published my precise cable and hub arrangement that works for me. So that's not breaking any rules.

And I never signed an NDA about USB-C anyway, so I can't possibly be held to the terms of any such agreement. I wouldn't even know WHO the other party would be, which would be another requirement if anybody is going to restrict me from saying "this is what I have and it works (or doesn't work) for me."

Eventually, as we gathered more info, we would basically KNOW which manufacturers have hardware that works or doesn't work, and by model number and year, basically.

I suspect also that neither did the OP nor our mods sign any such NDA either; probably only NI people (or employees working for other musical device manufacturers) are under this NDA.

If we build our own information base over time by our own information sharing, and we do it completely without having access to NDA-protected information, then nobody would be breaking any rules or contract agreements. And eventually, we would all learn what we need to know. "Use this" and "don't use that, that, or that".

If that were to result in one or more computer makers making fewer sales and less money? I doubt that would happen to any great extent, but even if it did, that's not on us. It's on that maker.

And finally, the Non Disclosure Agreement process was created as a way to promote real competition in the marketplace. It was never created as a way to protect manufacturers from being discovered doing dodgy behaviors.

DunedinDragon

In that regard I'm not sure it's always the chips that are the problems, although I assume it sometimes is. For myself the most common issue is in the fitment of the USB socket which causes a loose connection that can sometimes cause a disconnect. Even then it's not always consistent. I have an ASUS laptop in which one USB fits nice and snug while two others are always a problem and will disconnect at the slightest bump. Likewise I own two Morningstar MC8 MIDI controllers that both use USB-B connectors, one that's tight and solid the other that constantly flops around and disconnects.

These type of things are definitely items that manufacturers should test because once they go out the door it's MUCH more complicated to fix them.

Maciej Repetowski

Some USB-C chipsets in some Mac models are known to be causing problems with external SSD/HDD drives (spontaneous disconnects and such), I think it’s the same issue, as general consensus was to use powered hubs in such cases (source: MacRumors forum).

Can’t say it is the same with PCs, but probably.

BIF

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/175167#Comment_175167

In that regard I'm not sure it's always the chips that are the problems, although I assume it sometimes is.

You're not wrong. And yet it could be much more complex than just that…for example, Manufacturer A does some wacky stuff with chip 1234 that no other manufacturer does. Or maybe the assembly automation robot goes light on one of the solder joints for that chip, so Manufacturer A has more chances for drops with chip 1234 but NOT with chip 5678 which is soldered at a different assembly line, and maybe in a different country.

For myself the most common issue is in the fitment of the USB socket which causes a loose connection that can sometimes cause a disconnect. Even then it's not always consistent.

Yep, I've had that too. Fitment problems not only at the PC (or Mac) side, but possible fitment problems at the device end. Or possibly some percentage of cables from one particular contract maker that have bad or loose connectors.

These type of things are definitely items that manufacturers should test because once they go out the door it's MUCH more complicated to fix them.

But now then, it's on the customer to have the energy to RETURN a machine with a bad or loose fitment (of any kind, not just USB), or any maschine that has a potentially bad or loose solder connection to the motherboard.

BIF

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/175170#Comment_175170

Can’t say it is the same with PCs, but probably.

You're right. The only USB problems I have are on my PCs, not my Mac. But I'm just a single user. I suspect that BOTH platforms have some variety of issues.

And of course we should note that PC components are made by many different contract manufacturers with no unified oversight being done by any single brand or company. By comparison, Mac components are made by far fewer manufacturers, and the Mac supply chain is a lot more … what's the word? "curated by Apple", maybe?

Maciej Repetowski

https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/comment/175179#Comment_175179

Sure, but Apple do not manufacture USB chipsets by themselves, they select them from available ones, made by third parties. It was a bit like that with FireWire chipsets, where mostly Texas Instruments ones were used by Apple and those were the ones which were also not causing issues in PCs, for use with audio interfaces. VIA's were cheaper, but much more problematic on PC side.

So I do believe NI followed the USB-C protocol when designing Mk3 , whereas the USB-C chipset manufacturers were taking shortcuts.