Arturia V plugins GUI super slow in latest KK

Jezric
Jezric Member Posts: 47 Helper

Many of the Arturia V plugins (cs80 v4, DX7, just to name a couple) when loaded into KK (latest available) have extremely low framerate when trying to adjust anything in the GUI (same goes for the KK knobs). Running this in Ableton Live 11.

I searched around and didn't find others complaining about this, so what gives?

Not system specific, happens on both of my systems (which are very high spec i9, 64gb ram, m.2 ssd, rtx4080).

Makes using any of these plugins hosted in KK unusable. Please tell me there is some setting somewhere or that there is a fix brewing here.

Thanks

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Comments

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,474 Expert

    TBH, fix for now is to simply use KK 2.9. IMO it works WAY more efficiently in a DAW than v3. The new version uses some new framework which while more flexible, appears to be very more dependant on resources and at the end of the day, V2.x of KK does the exact same thing in a production, just with at least 30% less overhead. Only reason I would personally ever use V3 at the moment is if I owned an MK3 keyboard but that is unlikely to happen for some years until the software improves a tremendous amount.

    Try roll back to v2 if you have an MK2 keyboard, think you will find it is much better performing (and way more productive to use)

    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/17840/komplete-kontrol-2-9-6-last-vst2-supported-version#latest

  • Jezric
    Jezric Member Posts: 47 Helper

    Yeah, I have a Kontrol s61 mk3, so... yeah, awesome... I sure hope it doesn't take them a year to resolve this stuff, I mean they used the Arturia CS-80 v4 as a demo for selling the Kmk3, and it performs horribly in KK3*.

    I guess just add it to the list of issue with the mk3, as I have outlined here:

    https://community.native-instruments.com/discussion/17795/kontrol-s-series-mk3-feeling-like-a-beta-tester/p1

    @Matthew_NI , any insight on getting these issues resolved?


    Thanks

  • Simchris
    Simchris Member Posts: 184 Advisor

    maybe poke Arturia, up to them to update for kk3 compatibility

  • Jezric
    Jezric Member Posts: 47 Helper
    edited December 2023

    Uh, no... VST3 is a standard, and NKS (old or new) doesn't have anything to do with processing efficiency, just metadata, it's up to the host to support VST correctly/efficiently. The fact that Arturia plugins work fine when loaded in KK2* or on their own means KK3 is the issue.

  • Jezric
    Jezric Member Posts: 47 Helper

    Also, in Ableton Live, I notice that KK3 takes a significant amount of time just to show its GUI even after it's been initially loaded into a track. Like 5 times as long as other VSTs.

  • reffahcs
    reffahcs Member Posts: 787 Pro

    No issues here with the CS-80 v4 or DX7 using KK in Ableton Live 11, hardly any CPU load. Mac Studio.

    I can check my AMD PC tomorrow.


  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,491 Expert
    edited December 2023

    Not seeing this on my system either, just the issues I have reported already in Logic. If there are not a lot of reports it might be a local issue (graphics card?).

  • Braz
    Braz Member Posts: 56 Advisor
    edited December 2023

    I had this sort of issue with arturia plugins

    To a point they were nearly unusable.

    Turns out it was graphical options in Windows to tweak.

    I followed this guide https://www.musicradar.com/how-to/how-to-optimize-your-pc-for-music-production

  • Kymeia
    Kymeia Member Posts: 3,491 Expert

    Yeah sometimes it can really local, a while ago I had a graphics issue with iZotope plugins that turned out to be caused by another app I had running in the background - took a while to get to the bottom of it

  • Jezric
    Jezric Member Posts: 47 Helper
    edited December 2023

    So funny how people send you to these sorts of generic instructions. I have been doing music production for many years in multiple DAWs on multiple machines I know how to "optimize" a PC for audio production, most of this comes down to how Windows sets up default power management.

    This is an issue with KK3* ... Plugins work fine on their own (not hosted in KK3), this has to do with KK as a VST host.

    Clearly some people have issues like these, (across both Mac and PC), so clearly there is some environmental situation here, but what? For some reason this is happening on both of my PCs and it has nothing to do with horsepower (both have plenty).

    Again, all the Arturia (and others) plugins work fine when loaded on their own. The problem here is that I have the new Kontrol S61 Mk3 and want to use the controls on it, after all, all of its functionality is useless unless you're using KK3 or Kontakt7. :(

  • Braz
    Braz Member Posts: 56 Advisor
    edited December 2023

    In my case, I think that the problem was because knobs pictures or renders were loaded on the fly.

    Because I had a gui freeze each time I had turned a knob to a new position.

    When a knob went to all position possibles, I had no more gui freeze.

    It's really hard to tell exactly what the root cause was, but the procedure I posted solved it.

    I hope you will figure what the solution for your problem is.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,474 Expert

    So funny how people send you to these sorts of generic instructions. I have been doing music production for many years in multiple DAWs on multiple machines I know how to "optimize" a PC for audio production, most of this comes down to how Windows sets up default power management.

    It's not "funny" in how you phrase it as if he suggested you try and turn it off and on again, he offered a very valid piece of info based on his solution to the issue, it's called attempting to help since we do not know you from a bar of soap or how much you claim to know already (I mean you are here asking for help after all...), and it is common to suggest the most basic things first (or what worked for someone else) because, no offence, sometimes even people who claim to be "experienced" can overlook the basics (which they often do hunting for the more complex root cause, me included sometimes...)

    I too have been doing production for many decades, like many here, that means nothing when you have to ask for help and you have not detailed what you have checked first. I don't like to see people offering help being treated as if they are making a joke at the expense of someone's intellect. Maybe next time, just say "Thanks, have tried that already". Might attract more people wanting to help because i'm now reluctant to waste my experience...

    Clearly some people have issues like these, 

    Yep, some people have issues while others have no issues like this, this is why it is not specifically just KK that is the issue, it may be part of the issue in some cases, it could be a combination of things and personally I have an RTX 3080 TI and in my tests at least I had no such issues and I won't offend you by suggesting to check and test certain settings in the GForce control panel for the KK application specifically as I am sure you have already done all that.

    Best suggestion, submit a ticket and see if support can help.

  • Jezric
    Jezric Member Posts: 47 Helper
    edited December 2023


    Sorry if what I said offended, it was not my intention and reading back I can see how it could be taken that way and for that, I apologize. My point was that the steps outlined in the post are a very common first step people are sent to and you're right, you don't know my background or if I am familiar with going through the low hanging fruit of why issues may arise in a windows DAW environment. I suppose that I was expecting that given the information in my initial post and following replies pointed to only having this issue while hosted in KK3 and not loaded as standalone VSTs (or even in KK2*) running through the basic Windows setup processes would all be beside the point.

    Regarding nvidia control panel settings for KK3, this only happens when running KK3 as a VST and not in standalone. So, there is no setting there for loaded this way, as it would be the host (in this case Ableton), but yes I have tried those configurations for standalone at least (and for Ableton), most of that however is around forcing a particular graphics card for UI processing and then some more settings around power management so, not a lot there to control.

    My post was to reach out to see if others are having the issue and if they are or had, any steps they may have taken to fix it. (which is what Braz did, so thank you for that Braz!)

    I also suppose that I am in a bit of a damaged state here with the new KK3 and Kontrol mk3 thing, I have started a couple threads outlining all the issues with this new direction (with much traction), I won't repeat here, but as context to this thread, I guess I am defaulting to this being growing pains with the new KK architecture and was looking for a "yeah, we're seeing these issues, hold tight, we're working on it". But nothing from NI so far. Yes, I will be submitting a support ticket (that's step 2 after going through these sorts of posts to get an idea if it's worth going that route).

  • Jezric
    Jezric Member Posts: 47 Helper
    edited December 2023

    Hi Braz, hey sorry if my reply was brash, I do appreciate the suggest and even more so what you say here. That's an interesting take and I am going to try that just to see if I see the same behavior.

  • JesterMgee
    JesterMgee Member Posts: 2,474 Expert
    edited December 2023

    Sorry if what I said offended, it was not my intention and reading back I can see how it could be taken that way and for that, I apologize. 

    Man, I wish more people were like you. No idea why it is so hard in this world for people to say "my bad", that is what separates men from boys (just to be politically correct, I also do not mean all boys are men.... or even boys... well, whatever)! Like point awarded.

    Ok, interesting you say it works fine in the standalone KK but not in Ableton when KK is used as VST3?

    I only tested KK standalone when I was initially testing and while it was fine I have had numerous issues with plugins displaying at all with the VST3 plugin side. TBH I have a sinking feeling that the VST3 SDK is just not up to snuff for a lot of this. I have many cases where plugins work just fine using KK VST2 but do not work with VST3 (especially in Ableton, even in KK v2.9). Cherry Audio and Korg plugins to name a few will not even show a GUI, just a missing screen and a small error icon. Likely similar issues could be caused to other plugins maybe.

    I will also add this appears to be Windows related, people running macs have a pass on performance for this one. The issue could be relates because as I understand the plugins that have trouble are ones that are freely resizable like cherry audio and the new korg ones, the windows are resizable and I think most of the Arturia ones are too. Maybe the issue is similar but instead of no GUI it is just rendered poorly

    I'd suggest to try the VST2 version of KK but I am unsure if that is even included with KK v3. 10 years using VST2 and never an issue and now I have issues with dozens of plugins with VST3.

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